Dinoflagellates.

[Montireef]

They are 60x40um and I found that most of them are retained in a 50um filter bags.

Did you achieve to beat them? How? Did you find any good way to deal with them?

[cal_stir]

They are 60x40um and I found that most of them are retained in a 50um filter bags.

Did you achieve to beat them? How? Did you find any good way to deal with them?
Manual removal via blowing and vacuuming, 72 hr lights out with 7 days h202 and continuous UV, removal of sand bed except for under the rocks, no water changes for about 3 months now, except one accidental 5 gal.
I let my po4 rise to .06 ppm and no3 to 5ppm and doubled my carbon, I have micro algae starting to grow again, have to clean the glass every 3 days.
I find the odd one but they are small, look darker than normal and don't swim.

[Montireef]

I find the odd one but they are small, look darker than normal and don't swim.

Which are you talking about? Maybe amphidinum or prorocentrum?

I also have amphidinum in my tank. This dino is a nuisance but quite easy to handle as it will go away with a 5 days black out and doesn't spread as quickly as ostreopsis.

[Montireef]

I will keep on running the 55W sterilizer on the return pump besides a 11W sterilizer in the sump. I will keep on vacuuming the nasty snot as needed (probably in the morning and in the evening). Let PO4 and NO3 rise a little bit (skimmer and Phosguard are off) to forest other microorganisms and seed the tank with bentonic copepods (Arcadia) and heterotrophic bacteria (biodigest and TheraP).

I will not perform any black-out as I don't want to directly attack ostreopsis and forest cyst forming.

There is a small critter (parvilucifera) that parasitizes ostreopsis (and many other dinos) and kills them. I am going to try get some and try this way simultaneously.

[cal_stir]

Which are you talking about? Maybe amphidinum or prorocentrum?

I also have amphidinum in my tank. This dino is a nuisance but quite easy to handle as it will go away with a 5 days black out and doesn't spread as quickly as ostreopsis.
I have this
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/IMG_0981.jpg (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/Cal_stir/media/IMG_0981.jpg.html)

[Montireef]

Looks like ostreopsis, same as me.

[glocklt4]

90 gallon display/30g sump
SWC 160
Lots of Seachem Matrix (not carbon)
100 lbs of live rock roughly
7-8 small fish
MaxCap 180

Water Changes throughout this was 20% every 1-2 weeks.

I wanted to share with everyone my recent bout with Dino's.

So....

My Nitrates were finally down to <1ppm and phosphates ~0.04. My tank was previously overstocked and I had been running biopellets to help with the nutrients. However my PH was constantly low ~7.8 - barely ever making it over 8.0. My organics in my tank were high (obviously since the presence of cyano) and my corals weren't happy. I decided to add Rox Carbon (never ran GAC on this tank). After 24 hours of Rox carbon my tank started to look great - PH started to go into the 8.1/8.2 range as well. My Monti's appeared the worse and they started to actually repair themselves (encrusting monti's had tissue that receded in the middle of them) and color up. Of course the Rox carbon was a temporary fix as it exhausts in a short amount of time.

Right before I added Rox I removed a medium size hippo tang (4-5 inches) and a couple of smaller fish to help with lowering my organics. At this point I knew I just had to play the waiting game for things to get back to normal. (Had low Nitrates/Phosphate before this, but knew my DOC's were possibly a cause to my problems).


My T5's were all a year old (8x54w Tek Light) and I decided to replace 4 bulbs (out of 8). 2 Coral Plus, 1 Aquablue special and 1 Pure Actinic. This was a drastic coloration change as I replaced 1 fiji pink and 3 blue plus.

Shortly after, my Corals were getting better and cyano was manageable, but I started to notice "brown algae" growing on the upper back glass, powerheads, frag racks but not really on the bare bottom or the rocks. My nitrates were < 1 (0.2) and my phosphate at around 0.08. My first reaction was that my new T5's and their spectrum (much warmer) were the cause, so I cut back the amount of time I was running the two Coral+'s as well as raised my light a few more inches and it at first seemed to help slow the growth but my glass and frag racks were still getting covered. I had to clean my front,side and black glass a lot.

Once I realized it wasn't getting better and that my cyano was actually starting to get worse also (GAC most likely exhausted - this was the 30 day point), I knew GAC (Rox) wasn't going to compensate (unless I constantly changed it out) and that something else was the matter. I went ahead and replaced my GAC with a fresh 2 cups) and I decided to take my biopellets offline, as I figured at this point with the smaller amount of fish and their size that BP is probably overkill plus it could be increasing the amount of "ogranics" in the tank. After taking that offline my PH began to hang out around 8.3 with the lights on. Dino's were still a problem at this point, Cyano getting a bit better but still existent. I had also been dosing trace elements which I decided to stop.

So after a month and a half of all this I can see my corals are doing great but there was cyano and dino's present still. Just the corals on the frag racks were getting dino's growing on them.... At this point, I hadn't lost a coral so I never actually went into panic mode. I began to wonder, hmmm what else could be the matter, the dino's and cyano were not completely out of control, but ugly and annoying.

After a few days of just waiting. My wife comes to me and says, "ugh, the stupid water jugs take forever to fill up" (we make RO water for drinking). Use to take 30-45 minutes to fill up (5 gallon water jugs) and now its taking 1.5 to 2 hours. I think to myself, "uh, yeah that's bad". I go and look at my MaxCap 180 and notice my PSI is at 20'ish and should normally be up near 60psi. I bypass my sediment cartridge first and no luck. I bypass my carbon block and BAM the PSI goes back to normal. I check my TDS on my RO and DI's cartridges and I was pushing 4-5ppm TDS into my (RODI) reservoir which I used for my ATO buckets and my water change water.

Replaced all my filters for my Maxcap (mid March) accept for my RO membranes. Cleaned my ATO buckets as well as my Brute trashcan reservoir.
Anyhow, since then my dino's are just about gone (definitely not progressing) after a few water changes and scrubbing.

One thing I noticed was I didn't have any coraline algae growing for quite some time. Since then I am starting to see it in new places.

Well, I've been reading about dino's today for about 3-4 hours after about the same experience as you. I changed from PC lighting to LED actually about 2 months ago or more. I thought the LED's were amazing because they could be turned up so much brighter. I tried to turn them up slowly compared to what I had before, but maybe it was still too strong because shortly after my mushrooms were all white and bleached. Shortly after that a bunch of "brown algae" started to appear. I have been thinking that the change in light just caused a bunch of algae to appear, but now I'm thinking it's actually dinos. I added a GFO reactor today after testing water and getting .1 phosphates at LFS (to confirm my test). I have been doing extra water changes but it appears that I shouldn't have. On side note, my salinity has been high for quite a while because my spectrometer has been off by .005. It was at actual 1.030 when i thought it was 1.025. Now that is corrected and I'm down to 1.024 and spectrometer is fixed. I am wanting to see if things level off a bit before making any more changes, but looks like I have a challenge ahead of me. Oh joy...

[karimwassef]

Is there consensus that removing phosphates is not the right approach to dealing with dinos? GFO, water changes, etc?

[Montireef]

I have come to a conclusion that differs from what everybody claims:

If I stop the pumps and water movement, dinos also stop thriving and it is very easy to vacuum clean them. I have also found that the stronger the water is pumped the faster the dinos spread and go out of control.

I have also found that it is better to stop the skimmer and feed heavier.

[mfaso24]

I had Dino's about two weeks ago. I caught it really early before it got bad. I originally thought it was cyano but after a day or so realized it was Dino's. I immediately blacked out the tank for 72 hours and then ran only actinics for a week. After a week, I went back to my regular full lighting schedule. It's been like this for a week or a week and a half and still no sign of Dino's returning.

[Amphiprion]

I have come to a conclusion that differs from what everybody claims:

If I stop the pumps and water movement, dinos also stop thriving and it is very easy to vacuum clean them. I have also found that the stronger the water is pumped the faster the dinos spread and go out of control.

I have also found that it is better to stop the skimmer and feed heavier.

Less water movement/cessation of water movement led to more strand formation in my case. I can't say there were necessarily more, just slightly more visible. If left off for longer than about the 20 mins I had done, they may have possibly receded as you observed.

Beyond that, I'd have to say that your observations correlate well with mine so far.

I had Dino's about two weeks ago. I caught it really early before it got bad. I originally thought it was cyano but after a day or so realized it was Dino's. I immediately blacked out the tank for 72 hours and then ran only actinics for a week. After a week, I went back to my regular full lighting schedule. It's been like this for a week or a week and a half and still no sign of Dino's returning.

Be cautiously optimistic. A week is a very short amount of time with this particular pest.

[IUfan]

FFS!!!! I think the Dino's are back!

Just looked in the sump, and think I spotted some attached to my skimmer.

Does this look like Dinos?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/09/9399d7df831c1955f692db62a5817257.jpg

[cal_stir]

FFS!!!! I think the Dino's are back!

Just looked in the sump, and think I spotted some attached to my skimmer.

Does this look like Dinos?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/09/9399d7df831c1955f692db62a5817257.jpg
Hard to tell from the pic, diatoms can form strings also.

[Montireef]

I bet they are dinos.
Diatoms are some kind of turf mat, never seen stringy diatoms.

[IUfan]

I'll try to get some better pics, didn't realize diatoms formed strings also

[IUfan]

Someone earlier in the thread said that I can take a sample and mail it somewhere and they test it to see what Dino they are? Anyone have that info?

[Montireef]

You can send it to Pants.

[PorkchopExpress]

they look white though? i've not seen pictures of white dinos before, always brown

[Montireef]

Whitish strings means that only mucilage is left and dinos (which are always brown/red) are dying.

[IUfan]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/10/e2b59cb4b4a88af3805131027be2c994.jpg

This is on one of my drains. Looks like dinos to me.

[Montireef]

I am sure those are dinos as I can even see some of them individually. No doubt they are big ones so I suspect they could be ostreopsis or a kind even bigger (not the usual prorocentrum or amphidinium)

[IUfan]

The whole theory on blackouts working must be complete BS, as there is zero light that gets to that part of the sump as you can see I had to use a flash light to show them, yet these started to grow there.

There's none in the DT, but I expect it's only a matter of time. :sadface

[Montireef]

If it is ostreopsis, blackouts don't work at all. They are mixotrophic rascals and don't care about the light, if it is dark they just feed on a minimum nitrogenous matter.

[Amphiprion]

A quick update:

So far, the dinoflagellates have stayed at bay, that is, up until yesterday when I started noticing some strings reappearing. It is very interesting how this works. When algal growth is active, dinoflagellates disappear, but when it wanes, they immediately pick up any sort of slack. The funny thing that is occurring now is that while nutrients are slightly elevated from increased feeding, etc., much of the filamentous algae has started to suddenly die off en masse. This immediately corresponded with an increase in dinoflagellates. I have no idea what the impetus for any of this was, as nutrient limitation should not be one. Something is being competitively used/exhausted in the process that is leading to most of the filamentous algae to suddenly die. This is the same kind of succession that occurred before prior to dinoflagellates exploding in population :(

[Budman422]

I think I maybe going through the same thing I had dinos not sure what kind. I have elevated my levels until cyno started to grow. I hope the dinos don't come back when I get rid of cyno .

[GilliganReef]

Just gotta stick to what your doing and in time they should go away.

[Budman422]

This already has been a long battle. Almost 2 years I actually have had better results when I took off the gfo. I also quit wetskimming. Blackouts would work for a little while but they only come back stronger . I have a 20+ year old reef and believe at this point it is time to pull all the old sand. And add new. I think I will also try adding some new rock and trying to resead. I think it is a balance issue and it just isn't balanced. On the other hand I am getting growth on all my corals and have to frag all the time. I have a small biocube that I have stocked with frags from my tank and no dinos present.

[mfaso24]

A quick update:



So far, the dinoflagellates have stayed at bay, that is, up until yesterday when I started noticing some strings reappearing. It is very interesting how this works. When algal growth is active, dinoflagellates disappear, but when it wanes, they immediately pick up any sort of slack. The funny thing that is occurring now is that while nutrients are slightly elevated from increased feeding, etc., much of the filamentous algae has started to suddenly die off en masse. This immediately corresponded with an increase in dinoflagellates. I have no idea what the impetus for any of this was, as nutrient limitation should not be one. Something is being competitively used/exhausted in the process that is leading to most of the filamentous algae to suddenly die. This is the same kind of succession that occurred before prior to dinoflagellates exploding in population :(


Hm that's weird you say that. I had Dino's, blacked out for 72 hours and when I turned the lights back on, HA started growing but no Dino's. So now I'm battling gha. I hope I don't beat gha only to have Dino's reemerge.

And on top of that, my cuc doesn't seem to bat an eye at the gha -_-

[Amphiprion]

Hm that's weird you say that. I had Dino's, blacked out for 72 hours and when I turned the lights back on, HA started growing but no Dino's. So now I'm battling gha. I hope I don't beat gha only to have Dino's reemerge.

And on top of that, my cuc doesn't seem to bat an eye at the gha -_-

I've repeated something similar quite a few times. Be cautious about discouraging other forms of algae/macroalgae, IME.

*Edit: I mean via water parameter control. I don't know if herbivory would be an issue, though it stands to reason that it would not.

[mfaso24]

Does anyone know what actually causes Dino's? Is it something that has to be introduced?

[mfaso24]

On second thought, I think it's turf algae, not gha

[cal_stir]

They are hosted by corals, zooxanthellae, probably present in all systems but normally kept in check by something or caused to bloom by something.

[Montireef]

There are many species of dinos and all of them have to be set into the aquarium. Some are almost "natural" and can coexist, while there are other that can play havoc if present (such as ostreopsis, gambierdiscus...). Some can develop toxic substances and many others are just banal.

[Montireef]

I agree with Amohiprium: algal growth discourages most dinoflagellate species. That's a fact I am very accustomed to with my ostreopsis and amphidinum issues.
But now I think I am close to an ultimate solution: I found a natural parasite that is cleaning my tanks and my buddies ones flawlessly.

[cal_stir]

I agree with Amohiprium: algal growth discourages most dinoflagellate species. That's a fact I am very accustomed to with my ostreopsis and amphidinum issues.
But now I think I am close to an ultimate solution: I found a natural parasite that is cleaning my tanks and my buddies ones flawlessly.
Please share

[Montireef]

I would but I live in Madrid, Spain. The parasite is parvilucifera, and can rid a lot of dino species in about two weeks.

[dartier]

Montireef, It is interesting that you have been able to put a name to the protozoa. How were you able to identify the parasite to this genus?

Any negative effects on your corals? I am just curious if the parasite poses any risks to the symbionts in the coral tissue.

Dennis

[cal_stir]

I would but I live in Madrid, Spain. The parasite is parvilucifera, and can rid a lot of dino species in about two weeks.
How did you obtain parvilucifer?

[Royce7586]

so your telling me lucifer has rid your tanks of dinos...

All hail Lucifer!

[mfaso24]

Wait a second am I missing something? If it is true that algae growth discourages algae, wouldn't running macro algae In a fuge discourage Dino's as well?

[DNA]

Even if there would be a complete suceess with parvilucifera we would have to wait at least 3 months to see if cysts will recontaminate the tank.
At that point the parasite could be extinct and dinos free again to rule the tank.

I've got hopes for this parasite, it's the best new method I've seen in a long time.
Perhaps it's the absence of it that causes dino blooms.

If I speculate a bit further, we have still not found out what causes blooms in our tanks and don't know what the favorable conditions are so even if 99.99% of them die the conditions remain favorable.
Since there are millions of dinos in an infested tank a parasite would have a hard time finding them all.

---

Budman, identify your dinos and go from there.
Your new live rock plan could be helpful.

[DNA]

I could not replace my carbon after 4 weeks as usual and my SPS corals took the fast route south with tissue necrosis in week 6, just like last year.
As soon as I could do the maintenance it stopped.

I'd think this is an indicator to the tolerance levels of my corals to the palytoxins.

[mfaso24]

https://vimeo.com/119978348
Can someone help identify if these are Dino's?
They are strands coming off of the zoas, a little difficult to see but they are redish/brownish in color.

[Montireef]

I would say, they are. Your zoos are puking a kind of dinoflagellate called zooxanthela.
Maybe because they are getting a strong light.

[Montireef]

Montireef, It is interesting that you have been able to put a name to the protozoa. How were you able to identify the parasite to this genus?

Any negative effects on your corals? I am just curious if the parasite poses any risks to the symbionts in the coral tissue.

Dennis

I didn't have to id this little 2um critter, as it was given to me by a specialized lab in Spain. Ostreopsis and other dinoflagellates have been playing havoc since the last two decades, and thus we have many investments in this area.

Ostreopsis completely gone in less than two weeks, no effect on fishes or inverts (and I have about 400 SPSs corals)

[karimwassef]

Who is "we" and which lab is this?

[mfaso24]

I would say, they are. Your zoos are puking a kind of dinoflagellate called zooxanthela.
Maybe because they are getting a strong light.


I know what you're talking about but I don't think that's the case as I have a few strands here and there else where in the tank. It's nothing you would notice unless you looked extremely closely but it worries me now.

[DNA]

It happens in healthy tanks like when you rub against corals and such.
Don't worry about it unless it gets obvious, with brown mats or lots of strings.

[mfaso24]

It happens in healthy tanks like when you rub against corals and such.
Don't worry about it unless it gets obvious, with brown mats or lots of strings.


Well that's part of it is that I did get obvious. I blacked out for 72 hours (this must have been 3 weeks ago) then went just actinics for a week and now full lighting. As soon as I originally turned the lights back on I started getting turf or hair algae. And now I'm starting to notice some of this.

[Montireef]

Even if there would be a complete suceess with parvilucifera we would have to wait at least 3 months to see if cysts will recontaminate the tank.
At that point the parasite could be extinct and dinos free again to rule the tank.

I've got hopes for this parasite, it's the best new method I've seen in a long time.
Perhaps it's the absence of it that causes dino blooms.

If I speculate a bit further, we have still not found out what causes blooms in our tanks and don't know what the favorable conditions are so even if 99.99% of them die the conditions remain favorable.
Since there are millions of dinos in an infested tank a parasite would have a hard time finding them all.

---

Budman, identify your dinos and go from there.
Your new live rock plan could be helpful.

I agree. We have to be cautious.

The good news is that this parasite also kills the thecate and non thecate cysts (pellicles). Taken from our scientists studies:

"Pellicle (asexual )cysts,were not long term resistant to parasite infection,since their presence was not observed in the infected cultures after all mobile stages had been killed (5–7days after infection)."


In the pictures you can see an infected round cell amongst many healthy ostreopsis cells and two ostreopsis cells that have lost their theca.

[mfaso24]

I should also note that over the past week I have changed our all 4 t5 bulbs

[mfaso24]

Alright so this stuff seems to be spreading and coming back if I wipe it away. I'm going to assume it's Dino's and try to take care of this before it gets out of hand. Anybody know the best course of action?

[cal_stir]

Manual removal, I was blowing off the rocks and vacuuming it from the sand bed, no water changes and reduce flow, skim wet, I pumped the siphoned water back into the system through a 5 uM sediment filter, I kept the filter running in my sump so I could use it daily for about a week.

[mfaso24]

Manual removal, I was blowing off the rocks and vacuuming it from the sand bed, no water changes and reduce flow, skim wet, I pumped the siphoned water back into the system through a 5 uM sediment filter, I kept the filter running in my sump so I could use it daily for about a week.


See, now I've heard mixed results. Some say no water changes while other say aggressive 50% water changes every 2-3 for a while. And eventually cutting back.

[ZchryOB]

I have heard that fresh water kills dinos instantly so if I dip my rocks in it will that take care of it? I only have about 20 pounds so it wouldn't be too hard. Also
how would deal with the dinos in the sand and in the water itself?

[cal_stir]

See, now I've heard mixed results. Some say no water changes while other say aggressive 50% water changes every 2-3 for a while. And eventually cutting back.
I have ostreopsis and found water changes would cause blooms, aggressive blooms. Different dino types respond differently, some can be killed with lights out treatments.

[cal_stir]

I have heard that fresh water kills dinos instantly so if I dip my rocks in it will that take care of it? I only have about 20 pounds so it wouldn't be too hard. Also
how would deal with the dinos in the sand and in the water itself?I use UV for the ones in the water column and ended up removing as much of the sand bed as possible. I've ordered 10uM filter socks to help remove them from the water column. I have them to the point where there are virtually none on the rocks and corals but still getting some on the glass and the bottom. I've also tried h202 with no success.

[ZchryOB]

Interesting lol I will just fill the whole tank with RODI that'll nuke um haha I guess thats the good thing about having a small tank

[mfaso24]

I have ostreopsis and found water changes would cause blooms, aggressive blooms. Different dino types respond differently, some can be killed with lights out treatments.


I'm not sure what type I have but I did a 72 hour blackout that eliminated them for about 2 weeks (now). Since then I've also been doing my regular weekly water changes with no bloom. When I tell you they are not bad right now, they really aren't like honestly if I wasn't looking for them I would not even see them. I'm just super anal about everything in my tank and look for things to fix.

However I just know what these CAN turn into. Which is why I choose to be so proactive and aggressive even though it's on such a small issue currently.

[Montireef]

Switch off your skimmer, feed your fish heavily, vacuum everything (rocks and sand) through a filter sock, use Can(OH)2 to run high pH levels (switch off CO2) and moderate light intensity.

I have been fighting ostreopsis and amphidinum for three months and these actions worked for me. I had three blooms one week after I switched my skimmer on (it stripped the water nutrients).

Now that I have used a natural parasite I think that ostreopsis will be completely gone but will wait for a month before I switch it on again.

It is very important to encourage other microorganisms and algae that outcompete dinoflagellates and many skimmers just do not permit it as they are too oversized.

[ZchryOB]

I am planning on give all my fish and corals to a friend to watch if I keep my rocks and sand in the tank and fill it up with RODI that should work right? I dont wanna go through all the trouble just to get them again when I start back up

[bertoni]

Running RO/DI through the system likely will kill the dinoflagellates. Whether they will return or not is hard to predict.

[Amphiprion]

I am planning on give all my fish and corals to a friend to watch if I keep my rocks and sand in the tank and fill it up with RODI that should work right? I dont wanna go through all the trouble just to get them again when I start back up

When you reintroduce your animals, the dinoflagellates will return with them, even if you manage to completely eliminate them from the display. You can quarantine and treat your fish with hyposalinity and/or copper. Any corals cannot be effectively treated to kill the dinoflagellates without harming or killing the coral. Trust me in that I've tried at least as hard as anyone else to do exactly what you are thinking. I took it several steps further, even. Your plan is very, very unlikely to be effective as it stands.

[Amphiprion]

I agree. We have to be cautious.

The good news is that this parasite also kills the thecate and non thecate cysts (pellicles). Taken from our scientists studies:

"Pellicle (asexual )cysts,were not long term resistant to parasite infection,since their presence was not observed in the infected cultures after all mobile stages had been killed (5–7days after infection)."


In the pictures you can see an infected round cell amongst many healthy ostreopsis cells and two ostreopsis cells that have lost their theca.

Where have you obtained Parvilucifera cells? It could be more productive to share a potential source.

[mfaso24]

Look into dosing hydrogen peroxide. I've heard that's worked quite well for many people

[Montireef]

Where have you obtained Parvilucifera cells? It could be more productive to share a potential source.

I talked about that on post number 795

[MJNTWise]

This is my experience, I had Dino for the longest time. what fixed it was I STOP dosing vinegar. I do run bio-pellets(half what is recommended) and gfo. I also run 200 mico socks and change them everyday. Also I run a skimmer that is rated for twice my water volume. My NO3 and Po4 is Zero. The way I understand is dino will feed off of inorganic po4, and GFO is the best way to get rid of it. Like I said this is just my thoughts and what has worked for me.

[DNA]

.
This is from post #1 and it goes with identified Ostreopsis dinos.

Dinoflagellates.

Bio Pellets and Vodka.
I had dinos before and after so they do not solve anything.

DNA

Success or fail stories are not really helpful unless you post what they go with.
In this case I'm certain you did not have what I do.

Dinoflagellates are unbeatable for many and we need to step up with the quality of the information we post.

[cal_stir]

My ostreopsis is 98% gone, I am getting brown patches on the tank bottom and a brown film on the glass which is 99% diatoms with some scattered ostreopsis, I have turned off my UV to encourage green micro algae (I have none now) and installed 10 uM filter socks on my drains, which I will change daily, to try to catch the remaining buggers. I have raised my po4 to .04 ppm from 0 and my no3 to 5 ppm from 0 and my alk to 11 dkh from 9. The diatoms appeared after I raised my po4 and no3.
I believe most of my success has been aggressive physical removal.
I tried lights out and lights out with h2o2 which did not help, UV which I believe helped, elevated pH which did not help, wet skimming which I believe helped, 0 water changes which helped.

[mfaso24]

My ostreopsis is 98% gone, I am getting brown patches on the tank bottom and a brown film on the glass which is 99% diatoms with some scattered ostreopsis, I have turned off my UV to encourage green micro algae (I have none now) and installed 10 uM filter socks on my drains, which I will change daily, to try to catch the remaining buggers. I have raised my po4 to .04 ppm from 0 and my no3 to 5 ppm from 0 and my alk to 11 dkh from 9. The diatoms appeared after I raised my po4 and no3.
I believe most of my success has been aggressive physical removal.
I tried lights out and lights out with h2o2 which did not help, UV which I believe helped, elevated pH which did not help, wet skimming which I believe helped, 0 water changes which helped.


Is ostreopsis the only type of dinoflagellates?

[DNA]

Is ostreopsis the only type of dinoflagellates?

No, there are ~2000 more types.
Reef tanks don't seem to have more than a handful of long lasting, ugly and problematic ones.

Ostreopsis is one of the worst being toxic, ugly, spreads very fast and has a trick up it's sleeve against everything humans can throw at it.

[mfaso24]

No, there are ~2000 more types.

Reef tanks don't seem to have more than a handful of long lasting, ugly and problematic ones.



Ostreopsis is one of the worst being toxic, ugly, spreads very fast and has a trick up it's sleeve against everything humans can throw at it.


Ok I definitely don't think this is the kind I have. I guess that's a good thing.

[cal_stir]

Ok I definitely don't think this is the kind I have. I guess that's a good thing.
You can ID them with a 400x microscope.

[Royce7586]

Kordon Ich Attack. Kordon Ich Attack...its working!

My results with Fauna Marin Ultra Algae X were basically slowed growth and it probably killed about 20% of the dinos.

I read a post of one guy saying Kordon Ich attack killed his dinos. In desperation I went and bought it.

I have since stoped the fauna marin about 9 days ago and dosed Kordon Ich attack for 9 days and it is stopping their growth drastically. It doesn't seem like it kills them like the fauna marin but it stops them from growing.

I siphon the dinos every 2 days and normally they would be back just as strong by the next time but not now there are less and less everytime and I am winning the fight my corals look better then ever.

I was about to switch over to my new 75g tank but after seeing the results of the ich attack I had to put it off purely to continue the dosing to be able to tell you guys for sure if it works or not.

I will report again in a week but in all honesty this is the only treatment Ive used that actually seems effective.

Currently I am dosing 1ml to 10g peroxide and 1 shot glass of ich attack during the day and 1 shot glass at night in a 55g with 10g sump.

PLEASE someone else try the ich attack so i can know if im just crazy and my tank is naturally getting rid of the dinos!

Edit: I also am still skimming even tho the ich attack says not to. I figure with how much im dosing of the ich attack it can still be effective with the skimmer on and I have higher nitrates atm so dont want to stop skimming

[Amphiprion]

Kordon Ich Attack. Kordon Ich Attack...its working!

My results with Fauna Marin Ultra Algae X were basically slowed growth and it probably killed about 20% of the dinos.

I read a post of one guy saying Kordon Ich attack killed his dinos. In desperation I went and bought it.

I have since stoped the fauna marin about 9 days ago and dosed Kordon Ich attack for 9 days and it is stopping their growth drastically. It doesn't seem like it kills them like the fauna marin but it stops them from growing.

I siphon the dinos every 2 days and normally they would be back just as strong by the next time but not now there are less and less everytime and I am winning the fight my corals look better then ever.

I was about to switch over to my new 75g tank but after seeing the results of the ich attack I had to put it off purely to continue the dosing to be able to tell you guys for sure if it works or not.

I will report again in a week but in all honesty this is the only treatment Ive used that actually seems effective.

Currently I am dosing 1ml to 10g peroxide and 1 shot glass of ich attack during the day and 1 shot glass at night in a 55g with 10g sump.

PLEASE someone else try the ich attack so i can know if im just crazy and my tank is naturally getting rid of the dinos!

Edit: I also am still skimming even tho the ich attack says not to. I figure with how much im dosing of the ich attack it can still be effective with the skimmer on and I have higher nitrates atm so dont want to stop skimming

Mine has gotten substantially worse out of nowhere within the last 48 hours, with strings covering most of the tank. No other changes made, either. I actually had some of this from my freshwater tank--may actually give it a try.

[Royce7586]

I had strings like 5 to 6 inchs long in my tank now no strings.

Note the does im using is alot higher then their initial reccommend dosages but the bottle says increase does 50% to 100% as needed... I think im around 75% the initial dose twice a day

[Royce7586]

The active ingredient in Kordon Ich Attack is Naphthoquinone.

I found this on wikipedia

Naphthoquinone derivatives have significant pharmacological properties. They are cytotoxic, they have significant antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral, insecticidal, anti-inflammatory, and antipyretic properties. Plants with naphthoquinone content are widely used in China and the countries of South America, where they are used to treat malignant and parasitic diseases

[Montireef]

What kind of dinoflagellates do you have? It's very important to id them beforehand.

There are many remedies for some dinos such as amphidinum or prorocentrum but none for others.

[Royce7586]

I don't have any way of identifying the exact kind. I can say that nothing else was effected by the kordon ich attack so it should be safe for someone else to try it out. With that said I don't have any anemones or clams in my tank atm just corals and fish neither were effected in the slightest corals look better and better everyday!

If I had to guess I would say I have osteoprosis due to that fact that I have tried literally every other treatment in this entire thread on mine other then the pond UVs some people are running

[mfaso24]

I don't have any way of identifying the exact kind. I can say that nothing else was effected by the kordon ich attack so it should be safe for someone else to try it out. With that said I don't have any anemones or clams in my tank atm just corals and fish neither were effected in the slightest corals look better and better everyday!

If I had to guess I would say I have osteoprosis due to that fact that I have tried literally every other treatment in this entire thread on mine other then the pond UVs some people are running


Well looks like my Dino's are coming back. Looks like I may have to resort to this or hydrogen peroxide. Any advice? By the way I do have a few anemones in my reef.

[Royce7586]

The bottle says its safe for anemones I would probably try a small dose and see what it looks like.

In the anemone forum I was told the hydrogen peroxide I dose was what was causing my anemones to slowly die so I took them out and have them in their own 10g right now while I continue the battle with my dinos.

[mfaso24]

Can you tell me exactly how you dose kordon? Amount per gallon? Do you turn off equipment like skimmer?

[mfaso24]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/23/0de17dce47243c028500e4bac8221a23.jpg
Is this it?? If so, it says dinoflagelettes right on the bottle!

[jedimasterben]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/23/0de17dce47243c028500e4bac8221a23.jpg
Is this it?? If so, it says dinoflagelettes right on the bottle!
The fish parasites it claims to kill (it doesn't) are dinoflagellates.

[Montireef]

Have you tried with ostreopsis?

[mfaso24]

I had strings like 5 to 6 inchs long in my tank now no strings.



Note the does im using is alot higher then their initial reccommend dosages but the bottle says increase does 50% to 100% as needed... I think im around 75% the initial dose twice a day


Are these the kinds of strings you get?
This is a top down view from the bubble stopper on my protein skimmer. https://vimeo.com/120395743

[Royce7586]

They look like brown snot strings bascially, I had them covering my entire back wall and everywhere else. If you siphon them out they break up into small brown dots but if you leave them for a few minutes in the container you siphoned them into they will regroup into the strings again.

Weather you want to believe me or not on the Kordon Ich Attack is up to you but if you've tried everything else and its not working please try it.

I currently dose about 1 shot glass ~44ml or so during the day and 1 shot glass at night. I think that would be like .8ml to gallon dosage twice a day.

[mfaso24]

They look like brown snot strings bascially, I had them covering my entire back wall and everywhere else. If you siphon them out they break up into small brown dots but if you leave them for a few minutes in the container you siphoned them into they will regroup into the strings again.

Weather you want to believe me or not on the Kordon Ich Attack is up to you but if you've tried everything else and its not working please try it.

I currently dose about 1 shot glass ~44ml or so during the day and 1 shot glass at night. I think that would be like .8ml to gallon dosage twice a day.


Hm that's odd, my "strings" don't break up. I can actually go in with a tweezer and pull out the string whole.

[mfaso24]

I may try the ich treatment though since hydrogen peroxide scares me a bit more than I'm comfortable with.

[Royce7586]

Ya that is true I can pull mine out as well. There seem to be the ones that are stronger like that but my tank also has them where they are arnt as solid as that. Try siphoning some into a bucket, Some will gather on the bottom of the bucket but the other single dots type ones will stay floating and if you let them sit for a bit they usually start gathering together into new strings

I'm dosing peroxide at the same time as the ich attack, I've been dosing peroxide for months ich attack not for very long. So not sure if the peroxide makes a difference or not but I do know that anemones dont like peroxide

[mfaso24]

Ya that is true I can pull mine out as well. There seem to be the ones that are stronger like that but my tank also has them where they are arnt as solid as that. Try siphoning some into a bucket, Some will gather on the bottom of the bucket but the other single dots type ones will stay floating and if you let them sit for a bit they usually start gathering together into new strings

I'm dosing peroxide at the same time as the ich attack, I've been dosing peroxide for months ich attack not for very long. So not sure if the peroxide makes a difference or not but I do know that anemones dont like peroxide


Yeah the anemone is the reason I want to avoid. But you said you noticed results as soon as you started he ich attack right?

Also, have you done anything different regarding water changes? More? Same or stopped completely as some have suggested.

[Royce7586]

Ya I noticed a for sure improvement the day after the first dose of ich attack.

I siphon out about 5 gallons of dinos every 2 days and put about 3.5g of that water back in after filtering it through paper towels 2 layers of paper towels seems to work well. I would add all the water back in but the last couple gallons is really saturated with dinos so I fill the rest with new water. Water changes defiantly make the dinos bloom more but the small amount I change through this process doesn't seem to have as bad of an effect as larger changes does.

I also use a credit card to scrape as much them off the walls as possible. If your careful and turn your pumps off and scrape straight up it usually almost all comes up with the credit card

I've been keeping my skimmer on during treatment as my nitrates are a bit higher then I like them so I'm not sure what effect turning it off would have while dosing.

I have no carbon, gfo, or purgien or anything like that

[mfaso24]

Looks like I'm gonna try to grab some ich attack and give this a try.

[Royce7586]

i would just try a couple small doses first to see how the anemones react before upping to the dosages i described.

I got mine at petco fyi

[mfaso24]

Can't wait for the day they have a solid chemical reef safe cure for this stupid beast of a pest.

[bertoni]

Finally a possible positive value for a marine ich medication. :) I hope it works.

[Royce7586]

Came home today and my tank looks GREAT! first time in months that I haven't looked into it with a feeling of dread.

I honestly cant say if it is the ich attack for sure but from the week ago I started dosing it my tank keeps getting better and better

[Montireef]

It seems that parvilucifera finally got rid of my ostreopsis problem. I keep some of it to share with whoever needs it (or just myself if it comes back).

Now I have a slight amphidinium problem, another kind of dino which is easier to deal with. I think I'm going to try the Kordon way and check if it works. Corals seem to start thriving again.

[cal_stir]

It seems that parvilucifera finally got rid of my ostreopsis problem. I keep some of it to share with whoever needs it (or just myself if it comes back).

Now I have a slight amphidinium problem, another kind of dino which is easier to deal with. I think I'm going to try the Kordon way and check if it works. Corals seem to start thriving again.
That's great news, if not for the microscope I can't tell if I have dinos.
Keep us posted.

[DNA]

.
-----------------------------------------------
Do before, during and after pictures guys!
-----------------------------------------------
.

[Amphiprion]

It seems that parvilucifera finally got rid of my ostreopsis problem. I keep some of it to share with whoever needs it (or just myself if it comes back).

Now I have a slight amphidinium problem, another kind of dino which is easier to deal with. I think I'm going to try the Kordon way and check if it works. Corals seem to start thriving again.

It's funny you mention the last part. I don't have a current scope to ascertain what genus I currently have, but individual cells are quite large and a easily visible with the naked eye, taking on that characteristic "grainy" appearance. While the onset of the bloom was very fast, they are slowly starving themselves. They don't seem to be nearly as resilient as the Ostreopsis I had before and, surprisingly, aren't currently killing everything in sight. There are two things the bloom coincided with--re-commencement of homemade two part dosing and fresh carbon (from an old bucket from BRS). I have started dosing kalkwasser instead to at least address Ca/alk needs while I rule things out.

As far as the Kordon product goes, I thought I had some, but apparently not. I will obtain some, as no one locally has it, but I will wait to see how the current situation plays out. Something is definitely prompting the blooms, as nothing else had changed other than those two factors. Could be a coincidence, but I don't like just how coincidental the two additions above actually were. Will keep updating.

[glweek]

On day 2 of my peroxide journey. 5ml of 3% every 24hrs on a 50gal total system, tank is wrapped up in boxes right now for a 72hr lights out portion. ill then run low lights for the next few days then back to normal lighting and continue dosing every 24hrs until everything dies or im happy. I have two clowns, one royal grama, one cleaner shrimp, clean up crew, macro algae and a mixed reef. I am also currently running my skimmer, GAC and GFO during the process. If that doesn't work in the next 14 days ill start adding Kordon.

We will see how it goes.

[Fishmommy]

I found Fauna Marine Algae-X, supposedly kills dinos.
I am about to try it for green algae, but have a small patch of dinos that hopefully will die also. I'll let you know.

[Royce7586]

Algae X only killed like 20% of my dinos. Kinda made me think that maybe I had 2 different types at the same time.

Kordon doesnt seem to kill them...turn them from brown to dead white color, it just seems to drastically slow their growth. After siphoning out the dinos they do not grow back like they normally do

[mfaso24]

So I'm at about a little over a week with no water change and Dino's are starting to go all over. What do you guys think I should do? Keep going no water change or take another course of action?

[mfaso24]

https://vimeo.com/121040617
You can see all these strings on the glass. This is pretty much what it's looking like.

[Phlud]

First off I want to think everyone for the wealth of information regarding dinos. It is by far the single most informed and detailed collection of facts regarding dinos in our reef tanks, that I have found anywhere online. Took me several days of reading but finally made it through all 35 pages.

Without a microscope I know its just a guess, but I believe I have amphidinum.
It does disappear with black outs, but returns 1-2 weeks after. I have also been using H202 at around 2ml/10gal with some success.

The issue started about a month ago. I identified it when thin brown strings were attaching to various spots of shells in my substrate. I also found several brown strands on my pom pom xenia. It was not matting and all the strands were only about 1-3cm long. I wanted to catch it early so I started dosing H202 and on the 4th day of dosing went lights out for 48hrs. This caused it disappear visually. (Obviously it remained in my water column)
Roughly 2 weeks later I noticed a single 1/2 inch strand on my zoas and 2 small strings on my xenia again. So I repeated the same treatment.
Though I have been dosing H202 @ 2ml/10gal twice a day, more agressive than is usually recommended, for 14 days and stopped last friday.
Yesterday (2days after stopping H202) it showed back up.
I noticed my goniopora not fully extending. Closer examination showed about (6) seperate one inch strands coming off the polyps. I was hoping this was just the coral dispelling waste. But as the strands blew loose they attached to nearby rocks and swayed for 30 min or so before being blown into the water column. When floating in the water column the pieces stayed together for about a minute then slowly dissolved. Strings only show up during the last half of my 6hr light cycle.

Has anyone else had any variation of dinos attach only to certain corals?

I have a mix of LPS and SPS. My xenia and goniopora seem to be magnets for dinos while none of my other coral get any strings.

[Royce7586]

So I'm at about a little over a week with no water change and Dino's are starting to go all over. What do you guys think I should do? Keep going no water change or take another course of action?

Water changes dont help other then letting you siphon out the dinos. You should be siphoning them out filtering the water through something and then returning the water to the tank

[cal_stir]

water changes always fueled the bloom in my case, i'm about 4 months with no water changes, aggressive removal and siphoning and filtering has worked for me. a few weeks ago i removed as much of my substrate as i could and that helped a lot, i still see a few dinos under the microscope but mostly diatoms an other algaes, corals and rocks are clean and no strings, if not for the microscope i wouldn't know i have any dinos, i'm going to do a WC soon to see what happens, just trying to get up the nerve.
i have ostreopsis.

[mfaso24]

Just curious if anybody actually know how common it is for people to get Dino blooms in the reef hobby in general.

[Kearnel]

I've been battling some variation of this for about 4 months or so now. Don't which it is but it's definitely not the lethal sort, nothing has died and nothing is really affected by it. I blow it off with a baster, syphon up the gravel, return what water I can and top up with fresh. I still do my regular water change routine and normal maintenance but I have started doing the h202 at 30ml. I've also turned my lights wayyyyyyy down. Chanel one on my Evergrow is at 20% max during the day and chanel 2 hits 10% max during the day and I believe it's only at max for 0.5 hrs. I've been overfeeding and adding a coral vitamin supplements to try and put nutrients back into the water. Today was the first day in months that I came home and was able to do nothing to it because growth was almost non existent. I know it means little because it could just be a fluke but man it was nice to be with my wife and kids instead of up to my elbows in salt water. I hope I'm onto something, I'd love to find that perfect balance because all I've done with this tank is fight with it for the last 2.5 year's.

[DNA]

Just curious if anybody actually know how common it is for people to get Dino blooms in the reef hobby in general.

I think everyone has them in small numbers and blooms to be much more common than we like to admit.
It would be interesting to test if one of the phases with new tanks is dinos and the "diatom" blooms to be looked at under a microscope.
In my small community of reefers they seem to be in most tanks in visible numbers.

If you don't know how to look they go unnoticed and that is the case with almost all small blooms.

---

I'm able to do water changes now without causing an increase in dinos.
If I don't corals will lose their color and tissue rapidly.
Does that sound like a familiar unexplained problem in the hobby?

[calistyle]

Can anyone ID this?

http://i.imgur.com/69kEACC.jpg

Video:
https://vimeo.com/121148770

[mfaso24]

Can anyone ID this?

http://i.imgur.com/69kEACC.jpg

Video:
https://vimeo.com/121148770


ID:Satan lol but no I'm pretty sure you need a microscope to ID

[Montireef]

You have many things there, besides some rock, LOL

I bet cianobacteria + dinoflagellates

[bertoni]

I agree that the slime might be cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates. It'd probably take a microscope to be sure, though.

[calistyle]

I had cyno real bad and did chemiclean, which helped.

I've since done 3 - 30G water changes over a months time to get Nitrates down. As of now I'm sitting at .03 po4 and 10ppm no3.

I have no problem using h202, did so in the past (on my nano) with red turf algae and had great success.

That said, what do you think my best plan of attack is?

I'm thinking of trying the Kordon Ich treatment, but see limited cases on this thread.

Fish and coral are fine, CUC too for the most part.

http://i.imgur.com/DLLxjch.jpg

[mfaso24]

I had cyno real bad and did chemiclean, which helped.

I've since done 3 - 30G water changes over a months time to get Nitrates down. As of now I'm sitting at .03 po4 and 10ppm no3.

I have no problem using h202, did so in the past (on my nano) with red turf algae and had great success.

That said, what do you think my best plan of attack is?

I'm thinking of trying the Kordon Ich treatment, but see limited cases on this thread.

Fish and coral are fine, CUC too for the most part.

http://i.imgur.com/DLLxjch.jpg


You could try fauna Marin algae x. After doing a bit of research this seemed to help a good amount. Bought some and am waiting for it to come in.

[mfaso24]

Has anybody hear heard of or used the product dinoXAL? Don't know if it's available In the US. But supposedly it has good results.

[DNA]

Can anyone ID this?

It is Cyano on top and dinos underneath.
Removing the Cyano with chemicals does not help with the dino problem.

A microscope is the next step.

[Montireef]

I agree with DNA.
Microscope is a must

[mfaso24]

Hypothetical question: how do you tear down your tank and restart using the same livestock without reintroducing the Dino's?

[Montireef]

No way.

[mfaso24]

Was just thinking like what would happen if a large public aquarium had a major outbreak of this stuff...like LI aquariums 20,000 gallon reef display.

[Royce7586]

Dinoxal is the same as fauna marin ultra algae x, becareful with it I think I overdosed and it killed a few of my sps faster then the dinos were killing them

[mygsris2slo4u]

I posted some pics (including microscope pics) of what may or may not be Dinos. If any of you could poke your head in to that thread it would be much appreciated. I have not received positive Id on the culprit.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2478900

[mfaso24]

I posted some pics (including microscope pics) of what may or may not be Dinos. If any of you could poke your head in to that thread it would be much appreciated. I have not received positive Id on the culprit.



http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2478900


Just took a look. Hm I'm not positive. Dino's are usually more egg shaped was it moving under the micrsope? Dino's move pretty quickly. You can probably look it up and see what I'm talking about. I saw it somewhere but don't remember where.

Hopefully someone else can chime in and offer a little more help.

[mygsris2slo4u]

Just took a look. Hm I'm not positive. Dino's are usually more egg shaped was it moving under the micrsope? Dino's move pretty quickly. You can probably look it up and see what I'm talking about. I saw it somewhere but don't remember where.

Hopefully someone else can chime in and offer a little more help.

No movement... And did not appear to look like anything Pants shows in his YouTube videos. I really am stumped.

[Montireef]

It does not look like dinos, ciano or diatoms on the microscope.

[wilsonreefs]

As some of you know I've started a anti-dino approach in my 240. I noticed that in my DSB there were a lot of places with the dreaded "black sand" some under rocks, some under deep sand. I am in the process of taking out about half of my sand. I will be replacing with new, and I'm scrubbing my live rock and putting them into a separate container until I have things straightened out. I fear this is going to start a new cycle, but it is what it is. I am really sick of the dino's. So far they are managing to kill some of my corals..
I am running my skimmer pretty heavy, dosing with H2O2, running charcoal, and running my diatom filter, because I'm causing quite a storm in the tank.
My hopes are that with the shallow bed, I will be able to keep it stirred up enough periodically to keep the "gook" in suspension so that the protein skimmer can do it's job. I have a couple of Dart pumps moving water around in the display, I'm just going to have to direct it to better keep the live rock "dusted" off. I will try to keep everyone posted as to my progress and if this is going to help or not.
I did have (about 6 or 7 months ago my ATO stuck on and filled my tank and sump with Kalkwasser). This, to the point it looked like my tank was filled with milk instead of water! Yes, almost everything in the tank died. I tried doing water changes, etc, but I believe there was just too much dead in the tank that I couldn't get out and caused this flare up. Hopefully, this will fix my problem.
more later

[PorkchopExpress]

Mine is staying on. If it kills bacteria, I couldn't care less, I've got plenty to spare and they reproduce quickly. Besides, the 'important' bacterial colonies live on the surfaces of the rock/tank/substrate/etc, the ones pushed out into the water column are skimmer food anyway. :)

figured i'd leave an update - about 2 weeks ago i mistakenly turned off the pump for my UV while trying to turn off another pump for my GFO...i did not get any blooms or appearances of dinos and the only reason i knew my UV got shut off was because i was cleaning and lifted the return hose and saw no water was coming out of it...this now makes it over 3 months dino-free since the installation of my UV

how is your tank doing? are you seeing any under the microscope?

[Montireef]

Which actions apart from the UV sterilizer did you address to fight the dinos? If I remember right they were ostreopsis.

[PorkchopExpress]

Monti, not sure if that question was addressed to me but if it was I'm not sure what strain I had because I never purchased a microscope. However, I tried every single trick in the book other than the ATS or pouring my skimmate back into the tank. So off the top of my head I tried 3/4/5/9 day blackouts, raising pH, raising Alk, skimming wet, manual siphoning, all blue lights only for weeks, Ultra Algae X, DinoXal, H2O2 at triple the recommended dose twice a day, higher flow, no water changes for 2 months, heavy GFO, replacing filter twice daily, yelling obscenities at the dinos, you name it. Nothing worked except the UV.

I honestly think UV should work for all dino strains, you just have to have a big enough one that can eradicate them before they can reproduce. I did a 3 day blackout prior to installing the UV and during those days I made sure to blow each rock and crevice to make sure as much of them if not all of them were in the water column.

[DNA]

I honestly think UV should work for all dino strains, you just have to have a big enough one that can eradicate them before they can reproduce. I did a 3 day blackout prior to installing the UV and during those days I made sure to blow each rock and crevice to make sure as much of them if not all of them were in the water column.


During the daytime dinos like to sit on the sand and other surfaces.
Blowing them off at this time is very ineffective because dinos will attach instantly again to almost anything including themselves.

By night they get free swimming and this is the time for UV mass killing.
This easy method is vastly superior.

I would like to know for sure how fast they divide, but until then I will speculate it's insanely fast when they need to.
By my experience and others as well the tank will be back to square one in hours or perhaps the following day at best.

[PorkchopExpress]

During the daytime dinos like to sit on the sand and other surfaces.
Blowing them off at this time is very ineffective because dinos will attach instantly again to almost anything including themselves.

By night they get free swimming and this is the time for UV mass killing.
This easy method is vastly superior.

I would like to know for sure how fast they divide, but until then I will speculate it's insanely fast when they need to.
By my experience and others as well the tank will be back to square one in hours or perhaps the following day at best.

That's why I think an oversized UV in conjunction with blackouts would be the ideal dino killing procedure. Remove as much sand as you can probably also helped as well. We all know they free float into the water column at lights out so that is the best time to kill them. What a lot of other infected reefers who've used UV in the past and failed probably didn't have one that was big enough. I used a 55w pond sterilizer rated for a 15000 gallon pond and 4400gph flow in my tiny 34 gallon with a maxijet rated at 300gph. How anything in my water column can survive that is beyond me. 3 months later my tank is thriving like it never had so I don't think using one this big has had any ill effects on the ecosystem of my tank.

[wilsonreefs]

Does bryosis turn brown? The more I read, the more what I think are dino's may in fact be bryosis.

[mfaso24]

Just an update...tomorrow will be two weeks with no water change. I've been running blue actinics only for about 4 hours a day the last week or so. Dino growth is still there but definitely noticeably slowing down. I also received algae x in mail today and will begin treatment tonight. Will keep everyone updated on results.

[mygsris2slo4u]

I posted some pics (including microscope pics) of what may or may not be Dinos. If any of you could poke your head in to that thread it would be much appreciated. I have not received positive Id on the culprit.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2478900

Anyone else have an idea? It's frustrating trying to fight an unknown. The only thing I'm sure of at this point is that it is not Dinos.:headwalls:

[mfaso24]

So I've done two treatments (today will be my third) and the results are pretty significant. Lighting has been increased about an hour a day (still only actinics) and after about 5 hours there's really only a few strands on my zoas. I'll continue treatment probably up to 5 treatments (or 10 days as treatment is every other day) and see where I'm at as I gradually increase lighting

[Montireef]

Important to know which species of dinos you are fighting with. The product you mention does nothing to ostreopsis but can clean amphidinium in a few days.

[mfaso24]

Important to know which species of dinos you are fighting with. The product you mention does nothing to ostreopsis but can clean amphidinium in a few days.


Yes I agree. And I havnt id'd using a microscope however I highly suspect it is not ostreopsis for the fact that I have not noticed any die off of crabs or snails or other inverts. I'm aware that ostreopsis is highly toxic.

[Montireef]

Ostreopsis is not always toxic. I have suffered four outbreaks and only the first one killed all my snails and fishes
It is a mysterious fact that nobody can explain yet.

[HARTSDESIRE]

After reading all these horror stories, It seems like a NECESSITY to break my tank down and start over. But I do have a few questions, if any of you can help with some answers :)
I will be putting all my livestock in a smaller tank while my showtank gets completely redone, dried out and completely cleaned out with new sand and rock. When the cycle is complete, and I put my corals back in, will I be bringing the dinoflagalattes with them? Will a fresh water dip "REALLY" kill them? Will drying out my tank kill them before I restart it? Is there any helpful suggestions or advice that anyone can offer me to re-starting my tank? Thanks for the help!


=DNA;21643044]Dinoflagellates.
These are my findings on this persistent algae and they may not apply exactly to all since there are many types.
After 1,5 years and having tried all of the usual methods and then number of my own I'm getting closer to be an expert.
I got them from a colossal tank and they are visible there if you look for them, but are kept in check by something unknown.
Dinos are extremely successful in the wild and can grow to epic proportions called red tides killing fish and inverts in big numbers with their toxic soup.
They can also sense bad times ahead and create cysts that lie dormant until the conditions are right again.

My tank and I
It's a 420g system lit with three 250W Mh and four 80W actinic T5. The sump is lit with a single 250W Mh.
There are four Tunze stream pumps and a big Eheim return pump. Deltec skimmer and calcium reactor rated for my tank. Bio pellet, carbon and GFO reactors. I have over 10 years in the hobby.

Light color
At 14K Kelvin the dinos grow well.
Under 20K Kelvin bulbs wich is very blue the dinos grow just as well, but are less visible since the color of the light does not bring out the natural brown as much.
I ran 14K and 20K Kelvin, 250W bulbs at the same time just to find out if color range or bulb age matter.
Light intensity
The dinos do not like very intense light and usually there is less of them there than in darker spots.
Still they do not grow in fully shaded areas so there is an intensity range they prefer.
Dark periods.
I turned the lights off for three days and resumed with 5 hours a day. This was just like hitting the pause button. The skimmer did not skim any more and detritus in the water column did not increase. This was totally useless method in my case. I kept doing the 5 hours light period for two weeks. The dinos did fine before, during and after this test.

Current
I have not seen any difference between high and low current areas except where the current is high enough to blow the dinos right off.

Water changes
Dinoflagellates love water changes and not doing them will for sure make the dinos suffer. Still there is a drawback. I do 25% water changes monthly, but twice I have skipped doing them.
On the first occasion it was for two months and I lost a lot of corals and the dinos did not go away. The second time I had to try this method again and on the fifth week much of the dinos had left and I was pleased with the progress, but after six weeks the dinos in my corals started to leave as well, some corals died while others only lost the youngest growth or tips. There is a very thin line here and I do not recommend this if you have cherished Acroporas.
When I switched from standard TMC mix to full strength Red Sea Coral Pro I had couple of months of amazing coral growth and great colors. At the same time I switched out my Mh bulbs to more yellow ones.
This was when the dinos appeared in numbers and the growth stopped in many of the corals, but not all. Later I realized what I had thought for months to be diatoms on the sand was actually dinos.

Feeding.
I cut the feeding down by half for two months and it had no effect on the dinos. I felt the fish were starving so I went back to normal feeding wich is not much by the way.

Cleaning.
A good skimmer is a must. Without one I think my tank would be a real mess or worse.
Blowing the dinos off the rocks may keep them from settling in and grow into clumps. This could be most useful next to corals were the algae could have a chance to smother a delicate coral. Doing this every few hours can be a real pain though.
The most effective method to remove large amounts at a time is to turn off the pumps, blow off the rocks and siphon the sand. You can siphon the sand twice a week and get each time amazing amounts of gunk that is clearly dinos. I spent a lot of time keeping my tank super clean, but that did not have any long term effect.
Filter socks are very helpful and will collect a lot of dinos both on the inside and as well on the outside if the lighting conditions are right. After two or three days they can not take more.

Growth rate.
I think they may be self regulating by some unknown parameter since they have never crossed certain density and in my case I'd say I have a mild to average dino problem. It never got epic and never got to acceptable.
I have had Cheatomorpha in my sump for almost a year that has never been harvested and hardly grows.

Corals
Coral growth is hampered by the dinos. I think it's the toxic soup they produce.
At times when there have been less dinos the corals show clear signs of good growth, better polyp extension and better health.
Some of my sps corals have been doing quite good for the duration while others are clearly affected by the dinos.
LPS and Montipora are doing fine and are less effected than the usual more difficult corals.
Coraline only grows in well shaded areas the dinos do not like.

Temperature.
I tried to run the tank at several temperatures and that did not leave a dent in anything.

Ca, Alk, Mg, Nitrates.
My tank has both had periods of low alkalinity and low calcium and at that time I though that had something to do with it, but having perfect parameters does not make dinos grow any less.
pH
I raised the pH of the tank to about 8.4 for three days using kalkwasser without any positive effect. I had to keep the dosing to a steady stream to keep the pH up. The amount was way more than the tank needed and all of the pumps needed maintenance after.
Ferric Oxide. GFO.
For a few weeks I used a few pounds of the stuff and it did not help in any way make the tank look better.
Carbon
I think it's useful for the tanks health, but not in a way that you will see any changes.
Bio Pellets and Vodka.
I had dinos before and after so they do not solve anything.
Algae X
This is not available or has been imported to my contry before so I'm certain to have big problems with customs or need to pay big buchs to have it tried and tested and hopefully accepted in months or years even.

I'm certain Dinoflaggelates change the chemistry of your tank in a way most of it's inhabitants are affected in a negative way. There are a number of methods some reefers have been succesful with while others have not. If you have a small tank, try some of them and restart if you are not successful. If it's a big tank and restart is not an option prepare to lose some corals and be aggressive in your battle against this devil.

I hope this will help someone.
DNA[/QUOTE]

[jedimasterben]

When the cycle is complete, and I put my corals back in, will I be bringing the dinoflagalattes with them? Will a fresh water dip "REALLY" kill them?

Unfortunately your photosynthetic livestock is constantly on the hunt for new zooxanthellae. Our toxic dinoflagellates are pretty similar to the dinoflagellates that they are looking for and so are taken in. They are not suitable, so they are later excreted back out, but that's where the problem for us comes, you don't know if the corals will have any inside of them. It only takes one dino to start another bloom.

[Montireef]

I agree.

I tried it out three months ago just to lose time, money and many acroporas.

[Amphiprion]

Quick update:

The significant bloom of large-celled dinoflagellates subsided late last week, literally disappearing as fast as it appeared. The only change was kalkwasser instead of 2 part, though I can't determine if pH (especially with plenty of macroalgae and no skimming for exchange) or lack of trace impurities were to blame. I suppose I could begin dosing homemade 2 part again, but everything is doing too nicely for me to try it, honestly.

[Kearnel]

So after reading absolutely every post on here, reading every successful attack and every failed attempt, all the methods of annihilation and every way to go at this pest I decided to put a few I've read into place since I've been battling dinos for about 6 month's now. I couldn't narrow down which strain I had, no microscope and I don't really want one, not now anyway. I also couldn't figure out any specific thing that has worked for anyone so I just picked a few and went with it plus added a couple of my own. I tried the no water change but that accomplished nothing, I did however reduce the amount of water changed, a mere 5 gallons every 3 then 4 day's, 10 gallons a week total. I constantly was sucking up the pests, sometimes twice a day, I'd clean a put the water back in. I changed the direction of my powerheads to point across the tank instead of being angled towards the bottom. In my case I found that more flow towards them was not helping but was in fact causing more rapid growth. My carbon is now in a reactor and my bio pellets are working well, it's about 4 weeks active now. I was using filter floss in my sump as a water polisher but have since removed that and now use a more coarse and washable foam for that. My LED lighting reduced to 10% chanel 1 and 5% chanel 2, it stayed that way for about 2 weeks. Over the course of this week it's been raised to 30% and 20%, holding it there seems to be working as corals and my nem is doing fine. I did dose peroxide for about 3 weeks at 30 ml daily but have stopped this at the beginning of this week. My uv was offline for about 4 months but I have also gotten that up and running as well, about 2 weeks ago for that. I feed twice daily now as I was feeding every other day thinking it was keeping my water cleaner so I was trying to reduce pollutants in the water. I do add a vitamin and amino acid supplement every 4 day's or so as well, I had stopped this in the past thinking it could be adding something that was fueling my dino problem. It is my belief in my case that my water was simply to clean, for lack of a better term. I had no algae growing whatsoever so there was nothing to out compete the dinos for the nutrients. I convinced myself that maybe "dirty water" would fuel other algae to grow thus assisting in killing or atleast severely reducing the dino population. I do have gha now growing in places that are not overly visible so I'm thrilled about that. It's been about 2 weeks now and my tank has for the first time in month become almost maintenance free and I'm loving it. I know that 2 weeks is nothing and I also know the little buggers are still in there but they aren't visible so I'm ok with that. I'm not sure what it was exactly that reduced them to nothing because I did so much to attack them but I do think that almost all the changes played some part in doing it. Hopefully it stays this way because for the first time in a loooonnnng time, I'm actually enjoying the big bucket of water.

[Amphiprion]

So after reading absolutely every post on here, reading every successful attack and every failed attempt, all the methods of annihilation and every way to go at this pest I decided to put a few I've read into place since I've been battling dinos for about 6 month's now. I couldn't narrow down which strain I had, no microscope and I don't really want one, not now anyway. I also couldn't figure out any specific thing that has worked for anyone so I just picked a few and went with it plus added a couple of my own. I tried the no water change but that accomplished nothing, I did however reduce the amount of water changed, a mere 5 gallons every 3 then 4 day's, 10 gallons a week total. I constantly was sucking up the pests, sometimes twice a day, I'd clean a put the water back in. I changed the direction of my powerheads to point across the tank instead of being angled towards the bottom. In my case I found that more flow towards them was not helping but was in fact causing more rapid growth. My carbon is now in a reactor and my bio pellets are working well, it's about 4 weeks active now. I was using filter floss in my sump as a water polisher but have since removed that and now use a more coarse and washable foam for that. My LED lighting reduced to 10% chanel 1 and 5% chanel 2, it stayed that way for about 2 weeks. Over the course of this week it's been raised to 30% and 20%, holding it there seems to be working as corals and my nem is doing fine. I did dose peroxide for about 3 weeks at 30 ml daily but have stopped this at the beginning of this week. My uv was offline for about 4 months but I have also gotten that up and running as well, about 2 weeks ago for that. I feed twice daily now as I was feeding every other day thinking it was keeping my water cleaner so I was trying to reduce pollutants in the water. I do add a vitamin and amino acid supplement every 4 day's or so as well, I had stopped this in the past thinking it could be adding something that was fueling my dino problem. It is my belief in my case that my water was simply to clean, for lack of a better term. I had no algae growing whatsoever so there was nothing to out compete the dinos for the nutrients. I convinced myself that maybe "dirty water" would fuel other algae to grow thus assisting in killing or atleast severely reducing the dino population. I do have gha now growing in places that are not overly visible so I'm thrilled about that. It's been about 2 weeks now and my tank has for the first time in month become almost maintenance free and I'm loving it. I know that 2 weeks is nothing and I also know the little buggers are still in there but they aren't visible so I'm ok with that. I'm not sure what it was exactly that reduced them to nothing because I did so much to attack them but I do think that almost all the changes played some part in doing it. Hopefully it stays this way because for the first time in a loooonnnng time, I'm actually enjoying the big bucket of water.

Glad to hear that approach seems to be working, as that has been working well for me, too. The least maintenance I've done in a while and it's paying off for the most part. Still scared to do water changes, but it may be worthwhile to cease skimming for a few days after a change... I'll have to experiment with that.

[Kearnel]

I was the same way with water changes, I did one 2 day's ago and was terrified I'd upset the balance but went for it. It didn't have any negative effects on it. Everytime I come home from work it's nerve racking to come up the stairs and look into it but what a relief when I see nothing has yet come back . I never turned my skimmer off at any time but it did go haywire many times over the last few weeks.

[Kearnel]

I will also say that had it not been for this site and all the posts within this thread, the many contributions that all the members have made with all the information put out there, I wouldn't have really known what to try or where to start. Honestly, it was the reefcentral community that helped me along. Thanks all.

[DNA]

Ostreopsis is not always toxic. I have suffered four outbreaks and only the first one killed all my snails and fishes
It is a mysterious fact that nobody can explain yet.

Organisms can build a tolerance to at least some poisons if they ramp up slowly enough.
The toxicity of our dinos may also be variable.

[cal_stir]

Glad to hear that approach seems to be working, as that has been working well for me, too. The least maintenance I've done in a while and it's paying off for the most part. Still scared to do water changes, but it may be worthwhile to cease skimming for a few days after a change... I'll have to experiment with that.
I've done 2 5% WC in the past month and had no bloom, I still have some visible diatoms but can only find a few dinos under the microscope, I have a second much smaller dino along with the ostreopsis that I have not IDed.
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/IMG_1077.jpg (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/Cal_stir/media/IMG_1077.jpg.html)
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/IMG_1080.jpg (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/Cal_stir/media/IMG_1080.jpg.html)
It swims without spinning.

[Montireef]

Might be amphidinium

[cal_stir]

Might be amphidinium
That's it
http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices/Dinophyceae/AMPHIDINIUM/Amphidinium_Image_page.html

[Royce7586]

Im curious has anyone got a Triton water test during a dinobloom? Would be interesting to see if anything is different in a dino tank compared to normal tank triton tests

[Montireef]

Good point cal_stir.

I am afraid I am not only an ostreopsis expert, but amphidinium as well, LOL

As some of my tanks sit in the sun and are ULNS, they behave like a dino's magnet...

Amphidinium is much easier to cope with, never had toxicity events and always got rid of it with just a 4/5 days blackout.

[DNA]

I made a few minor changes.
New carbon brand.
Alklinity from 8-7
One new MH bulb out of three.
30 extra minutes of light.

Now I have twice as much dinos as the last few months.
SPS corals are heading south quite fast. I have some dead already.
M Capricornis have lost some color going from bright red and green to gray.

- - -

This is simply a repeat of my previous findings and now I can say for sure that there is a link between Ostreopsis dinos in a reef tank and SPS coral health.

There is a point where your SPS corals show signs of no or slow growth.
This can creep up on experienced tank owners becasue the dinos will be very hard to detect if you are uninformed.

There is another piont where your SPS corals stop growing and slow tissue necrosis will take place.
There will be brown patches here and there with clear surfaces in between.

Then there is a point where toxicity is at a level where corals can die in a few days with a fast tissue necrosis or show marks of severe discomfort.
Most of your sand will be covered in dinos and at least some of the live rock.

- - -

Did someone say dinos are difficult?

[cal_stir]

I made a few minor changes.
New carbon brand.
Alklinity from 8-7
One new MH bulb out of three.
30 extra minutes of light.

Now I have twice as much dinos as the last few months.
SPS corals are heading south quite fast. I have some dead already.
M Capricornis have lost some color going from bright red and green to gray.

- - -

This is simply a repeat of my previous findings and now I can say for sure that there is a link between Ostreopsis dinos in a reef tank and SPS coral health.

There is a point where your SPS corals show signs of no or slow growth.
This can creep up on experienced tank owners becasue the dinos will be very hard to detect if you are uninformed.

There is another piont where your SPS corals stop growing and slow tissue necrosis will take place.
There will be brown patches here and there with clear surfaces in between.

Then there is a point where toxicity is at a level where corals can die in a few days with a fast tissue necrosis or show marks of severe discomfort.
Most of your sand will be covered in dinos and at least some of the live rock.

- - -

Did someone say dinos are difficult?
Sorry to hear. I have changed carbon brands recently and increased white light intensity and started doing water changes again, no bloom but I still see a few of them under the microscope.

[Montireef]

I have found a substance that killed ostreopsis in less than 24 hours. Absolutely harmless for corals, urchins, starfishes, crabs...but killed all my fishes and some trochus snails (turbo, strombus, nassarius and tectus seem unaffected).
The skimmer pulled out 1 gal of black gunk in a few hours and water is crystal clear. Corals show a slightly pale colour and polyp extension is great.

[DNA]

Montireef you are really going all in with your methods.
For a healthy tank, that is what needs to be done.

Would you say your corals showed instant signs of improvement?
Long term effects remain to be seen, but in my previous post I mention the grip Ostreopsis has on corals.
Of course dinos only happen to someone else, but they could be one of the biggest cause of coral problems in reef tanks.

[Montireef]

Almost 48h since the first dose and no dinos visible.
As it killed all my fishes, I put a big load of GAC so I presume there is nothing left in the water.

Corals are happier than ever with awesome polyp extension. As I don't have any fish now I will dose a bit more next time I see any dinoflagellate sign. I seems it has nuked ostreopsis and amphidiniun but I still see many ciliates and copepods on the microscope. Colonista snails and small ophiura seem unaffected but some trochus snails are quiet and probably dying (half the population).

A friend of mine with a severe ostreopsis bloom is going to try on his tank at a small dose. I tried at 1 ml/100 l and he will try at 0,3 ml/100 l.

We will soon know if it works at a fish-safe dose.

[DBSAM]

Almost 48h since the first dose and no dinos visible.
As it killed all my fishes, I put a big load of GAC so I presume there is nothing left in the water.

Corals are happier than ever with awesome polyp extension. As I don't have any fish now I will dose a bit more next time I see any dinoflagellate sign. I seems it has nuked ostreopsis and amphidiniun but I still see many ciliates and copepods on the microscope. Colonista snails and small ophiura seem unaffected but some trochus snails are quiet and probably dying (half the population).

A friend of mine with a severe ostreopsis bloom is going to try on his tank at a small dose. I tried at 1 ml/100 l and he will try at 0,3 ml/100 l.

We will soon know if it works at a fish-safe dose.

Monti, I missed what you are using...have you posted it?
Thanks

[Montireef]

A naphthoquinone extract. It's very concentrated and all natural. You can use it with UV sterilizer and skimmer on. The only thing you have to stop is the GAC media if you are using it.

[ssick92]

The only thing that got rid of my dinos was adding a UV sterilizer to my setup. I had dinos for a couple months, installed a UV sterilizer, and they were gone within a week.

[Royce7586]

Are you kidding me I told you guys to use Kordon Ich attack...it is naphthoquinone...

[Montireef]

Yes I know. But I am using a specific kind of very concentrated naphthoquinone without any other substance as you can get with the Kordon product.

[cal_stir]

Are you kidding me I told you guys to use Kordon Ich attack...it is naphthoquinone...
Were you successful with the kordon ick attack and how much did you dose?
Do you what kind of dinos you have/had?

[DNA]

Montireef it's possible you did not overdose and that Naphthoquinone is not what killed all your fish.
The mass death of dinos could have released deadly amounts of toxins and I find that more likely judging from what I have witnessed with dino swings in my tank.

We should add this to our experience as a possible limit in fish tolerance to sudden rise in palytoxin.

I'm not sure what to draw from the corals getting pale. Is it the symbiodinum or ostreopsis leaving the corals?

[Montireef]

It might be, but I did not have much ostreopsis slime so I presume they died because of the high dosage.

When I watched the fish behaving weird I placed a big amount of GAC but could not save them. This surely removed all the naphthoquinones and three days later I start watching some ostreosis slime showing up.

[DNA]

As with most medicine it's rarely an instant cure with one shot.
You have found something that works to some extent so a further treatment over time seems to be the logical thing to try as these often take weeks to work in humans.
I take it this stuff is anti-fungal and damages cell walls and I can imagne that would expose or release the dinoflagellates toxin.

[DNA]

How are your battles going?

---

My SPS corals are still heading south, but slowly after the initial plunge.
They look just as bad as my current reefing mood.
The dinos seem to have found a new and an increased population density they seem to intend to stick with.

---

For ostreopsis we have found loads of methods that don't work, but none that do any permanent good.
It's been more than three years since my battle started and frankly the dinos still rule the tank.

---

[DNA]

I've been thinking how scientists get their density samples.
I think they just take a very small sample, less than 1ml, out of the water column and then count the dinos using a microscope.
Then they publish their outcome as dinos/volume

I think we could do something similar to figure out our dino situation compared to everyone else.
If this was done to enaugh number of tanks we'd get an interesting picture on dinos in reef tanks.

We'd have to standardize the sample method to something like, 4 inches below the surface, 2 hours after the lights go out.

---

I'd have to say I'm getting really tired of dinos.

[cal_stir]

I took some samples last night. 2 hours after lights out I turned off all pumps for 10 minutes, took @ 1ml from 4 inches below water level and put 2 drops on 4 slides, couldn't find any dinos.
I squeezed a sample out of my 10uM filter sock and prepared 2 slides, found 1 cell of ostreopsis.
I took a sample of skimmate and prepared 1 slide and found 5 ostreopsis dinos.

I still have some brown patches showing up on the bottom of my tank and green and brown film on the glass and when I look at samples of that I see mostly diatoms and green algae and a few ostreopsis and a dozen amphidinium.

I have ordered some Kordon ich attack to see if I can rid the rest of the dinos.

The diatoms appeared about a month ago after I raised my po4 to .04 ppm and my no3 to 5 ppm and have remained very consistent, my po4 is currently .03 ppm and no3 is 4 ppm, I feel the diatom bloom should have subsided by now. I'm going to add some more diatom eating clean up crew as well.

[DNA]

Way to go cal stir and you even took it to the next level.
I would not be bothered by the odd cells since I think all tanks have them anyway.
It seems like you have your dinos under control at the moment. Lets hope you have turned things around.

From earlier when i had the massive dino blooms I used to turn off my pumps and blow the dinos off of all surfaces.
They would clump up and sink to the bottom in 5-10 minutes. I had billions of dinos in my tank at that time.
I think dinos are not naturally boyant and will sink slowly during the night in calm water, but during the day they often produce oxygen that pulls them towards the surface.

[cal_stir]

Way to go cal stir and you even took it to the next level.
I would not be bothered by the odd cells since I think all tanks have them anyway.
It seems like you have your dinos under control at the moment. Lets hope you have turned things around.

From earlier when i had the massive dino blooms I used to turn off my pumps and blow the dinos off of all surfaces.
They would clump up and sink to the bottom in 5-10 minutes. I had billions of dinos in my tank at that time.
I think dinos are not naturally boyant and will sink slowly during the night in calm water, but during the day they often produce oxygen that pulls them towards the surface.
Next sample will be 2 hrs after lights out, 4 in below water line and off the bottom before and after I turn the pumps off.

I agree that all tanks have dinos but it would be nice to know for sure.

[Royce7586]

Were you successful with the kordon ick attack and how much did you dose?
Do you what kind of dinos you have/had?

Well i stopped dosing for about 2 weeks, The dinos stayed about the same but started regrowing a bit more so I bought another bottle.

I got about half way into that bottle thinking it wasn't working this time. Then I realized I hadn't took my carbon off and sure as **** the next day they were receding again after a few more days of dosing they are looking to be on their last legs. I did a large water change yesterday will report back later today on if they regrew like they normally do after water changes.

The dose I was using was 1 shot glass during the day and 1 shot glass during the night. That was the first dosing phase I did. 2nd time around I've only been doing 1 shot glass a day. This is in a 55g with 10g sump....I know that isn't scientific dosing but if you read the instruction on the ich attack it pretty much says if suggested does isn't working add more and more lol. So I seemed to find success at those levels.

I'm not sure what kind I have but I do know all these things dont work, hydrogen peroxide, gfo, lights out, fauna marin ultra algae x (tho i think I might have had 2 kinds of dinos cause the fauna did kill about 20% of it when it was at its worst) due to mine being so resistant to what works for some people I would guess that I had osteporis but I really have no idea

[Royce7586]

Way to go cal stir and you even took it to the next level.
I would not be bothered by the odd cells since I think all tanks have them anyway.
It seems like you have your dinos under control at the moment. Lets hope you have turned things around.

From earlier when i had the massive dino blooms I used to turn off my pumps and blow the dinos off of all surfaces.
They would clump up and sink to the bottom in 5-10 minutes. I had billions of dinos in my tank at that time.
I think dinos are not naturally boyant and will sink slowly during the night in calm water, but during the day they often produce oxygen that pulls them towards the surface.


I agree with the sinking, when I would siphon out dinos and pour the water back in I could get the good majority of the dinos to just sink to the bottom of the bucket and then pour the water from the top back in the tank

[Montireef]

Watch the colour of the snotty stuff: it is normally brown when loaded with dinos and whitish if they are empty because dinos stopped thriving.

It is not safe to blow them if they are brown: you will spread them and multiply like crazy.

They sometimes accumulate energy from the day light and start building the mucilage in the first minutes on the dawn. They spread using the water flow and can stick to any surface surprisingly strong. I have found that it is better to slow down the pumps specially when lights are on.

[Principal_P]

Aren't dinos really susceptible to the light? Once you turn the turn the lights out they virtually disappear...only to return again the next time you turn them on. You can almost watch them grow in intensity throughout the day they grow that fast. If there's no change when the white lights go out then it probably wouldn't be dinos.

[Montireef]

Dinos are benthonic in daytime and pelagic in nighttime. They multiply all day long but are specially visible in the light

[cal_stir]

Dinos starting to bloom again, did my first dose of ich attack, fingers crossed.

[mfaso24]

I found that large and frequent (every two days) water changes has helped me amazingly.
I used algae x with good results however it came back really bad. Cleaned up the tank and started algae x again which didn't do too much 2nd time around. That's when I tried water changes. I heard this somewhere and I believe in it for many aquarium issues: "the solution to pollution is dilution."

[Royce7586]

Most people find water changes actually increase their dinos

[cal_stir]

Most people find water changes actually increase their dinos
Ya, I tried large frequent water changes in the beginning and only fueled it, 0 water changes worked best for me.

[mfaso24]

Yeah water changes was my original plan but I shyed away from it originally from everyone saying it fuels it.

[cal_stir]

It's day 2 dosing ich attack and it appears that the dinos are cysting, the first photo is new cysts, the second is what appears to be dinos turning into cysts, you can see what looks like a cyst forming inside the dino, the third is some pics of cysts I found on the web.
I don't think this battle can be won.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/IMG_1175.jpg (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/Cal_stir/media/IMG_1175.jpg.html)
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/IMG_1174.jpg (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/Cal_stir/media/IMG_1174.jpg.html)
http://http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/Cal_stir/dinos.png (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/Cal_stir/media/dinos.png.html)

[rog2961]

I saw some dinos in my tank starting to grab hold. I ended up opening a window after water change and they started to go away.

[cal_stir]

I saw some dinos in my tank starting to grab hold. I ended up opening a window after water change and they started to go away.
I don't quite understand what your saying.

[Royce7586]

Forgot to report on my waterchanges I have since done 2 decent size changes and my dinos have not come back, how strong of dose are you using Cal stir. What do you mean by the cysting is it different from what they normally do?

[DNA]

That's very interesting photos Cal Stir and they definitely shows us that a temporary attack is not likely to produce a permanent fix.
I've said it a few times that finding what causing blooms would be the holy grail.

Scientist in the field have documented ocean blooms in late summer and the cause to be current bringing nutrients up from the deep.
I'm not sure they have proved it or if it goes with reef tanks.
My tank and a constant dino bloom for years points to something else taking place.

Even though this ick attack experiment seems to be a failure, at the same time it's an important step forward.

---

I used to get a big and obvious increase in dinos with water changes.
Now I do 25% monthly without any visible changes.

---

Rog2961 is saying he lowered CO2 in the house.

[DNA]

I'd like to share something with you guys that I think is important.

First I'd like to introduce the Coccolithophores. (Emiliania Huxley)
They are about 5 micron and 5 times smaller than e.g. an Ostreopsis dinflagellate.
I noticed a bloom out of the coast here in Iceland at the same time I was jet again looking for a reason for my constant low calcium level.
It was like many puzzles found their place at the same time and the big picture became clearer.

The ocean is rarely transparent and it's color will tell a tale of what is going on. Same goes for our tanks.
A slightly yellow or brown could be low amount of dinos or diatoms, various intensities of green could be algae, white or cyan/turquoises calcareous algae and red a dense dino bloom.

Of course we have these white coccolith blooms in our tanks as well.
We just don't realize it and in all my years reefing I have never heard anyone mentioning them.
Because of our small tanks and relative dim lights we don't see or recognize them for what they are.

A friend and myself simply can't get calcium levels to the SPS standard and they hover under 400 or lower if something happens to Ca production.

I have noticed that I have more debris in suspension than most tanks and decided to have a better look.
I got my camera and looked at the debris on the rocks. Most of it was calcareous and some had organic shapes like sticks and broken shells.
The magnification didn't allow for coccolithophores or coccoliths since they are even to small for a proper look in a light microscope.
After my last water change the water column had a haze to it for a few days and I think that is possibly Coccolithophores and other calcareous algae.

They have a very short live span and use up a lot of calcium. Their armor falls of and slowly falls to the ocean floor, meanwhile they reflect light so well their blooms can be seen from space.
I can imagine they produce an organic mass that is like a dead fish in the tank at all times. Is this what fuels dinoflagellates?

I was looking at photos of red tide blooms in the ocean and noticed they often come with white ones.
The official time is white ones peak in the spring and red ones in late summer.

I think it's very likely these ocean blooms are linked, but proving how is not easy. It's documented that a virus kills off the white blooms.

-

We have found out that dinos usually like water changes. - That could be because of increase in coccolithopores.
There are at least two local Ostreopsis tanks that can't reach proper calcium levels.
When I siphon from the sand the amounts of dust baffles me. - That could be the excess calcium I'm adding and not seeing on the corals that have stunted growth.
We have yet to find out what causes dino blooms and keeps them going in reef tanks.

Here is a new dimension worth having in mind.

Emiliania Huxley
http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/earthguide/imagelibrary/images/emiliania_huxleyi_3.jpg

Notice the various colors in the ocean and the country sized blooms.
http://www.noc.soton.ac.uk/soes/staff/tt/eh/pics/sat/nwatl/watl.jpg


I noticed red and white tides often go together.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53444d8ae4b050a8ed55e526/t/53860f8fe4b03d58a468f71e/1401294744941/red+tide.jpg?format=1000w

Guess what this white stuff is? From 2 microns to many miles (km) in thickness.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/14/article-2114912-122B6943000005DC-753_964x778.jpg

[cal_stir]

I think I need to get out of reefing but I don't know how, I definitely do not want to spread this horrible affliction around so selling the rock and animals seems out of the question, anybody have any ideas?

[mfaso24]

I think I need to get out of reefing but I don't know how, I definitely do not want to spread this horrible affliction around so selling the rock and animals seems out of the question, anybody have any ideas?


Well equipment and rock you can bleach and kill the livestock and sell that off as dead rock. As far as livestock I wouldn't know what to do either.

[cal_stir]

Well equipment and rock you can bleach and kill the livestock and sell that off as dead rock. As far as livestock I wouldn't know what to do either.
I am wondering if I quarantine the fish and treat them with copper if they would be safe to sell?

[DNA]

Here is Newbie Aquarists shot from yesterday.

Dinos, Cyano and Calcareous algae all going at the same time.
A 600 gallon tank makes the haze more visible.
His shots from last year are this way as well.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/10/3eab77c90c52570616222e058301908c.jpg

His thread is here.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2066256&page=174

I'm a subscriber now.

[rog2961]

I don't quite understand what your saying.

I've read from a couple places that pH affects Dino. Opening a window in a newer house cold increase oxygen and pH levels. I. Newer home they tend to be more airtight thus more co2

[cal_stir]

I've read from a couple places that pH affects Dino. Opening a window in a newer house cold increase oxygen and pH levels. I. Newer home they tend to be more airtight thus more co2
I was running a co2 scrubber on my skimmer for years, pH was always 8.3+ and I have an older home that is not super air tight and my furnace and hot water are direct vented.

[Montireef]

Great info, DNA

I still have some ostreopsis visible only the microscope. I am fostering further biodiversity and getting a lot of micro critters by dosing big amounts of phytoplankton and aminoacids (copepods, snails, amphipods, tube-worms...). I dose 100 ml phytoplankton per day (nanochloropsis, Isochrysis and tetraselmis) with a peristaltic pumps in a very linear way (a squirt every hour).

The first days I got a little spike of dino-snot but now it seems to have come to a balanced situation and ostreopsis is clearly vanishing even in full sun light and doing WC.

Never got better results and so easily. I bet it is a matter of time to fully get rid of this pest.

[Adrnalnrsh]

Will any brand or type of phytoplankton work and what type brand of amino's are you using?

[Montireef]

I use a concentrated phytoplankton gel: EasyBooster. Great stuff.
Aminos used are Aquavitro Fuel

It is a 600 gal system

[elFloyd]

Hi DNA...

I am in my 8th day of H2O2 dosing (60ml per day: 180 gallon tank).
I have a haze in my tank; run a big skimmer; and change filter socks daily.
Calcium is at 450. No calcium reactor, or supplements.

Regarding coccolithopores... how can these be controlled and diminished?

[Montireef]

That haze might be a bacterial bloom.
Have you tried a germicide?

[elFloyd]

That haze might be a bacterial bloom.
Have you tried a germicide?

No germicide... currently dosing H2O2... don't want to get a cocktail going with too many things at once.

[bertoni]

If the tank is having a bacterial bloom, I'd consider adding a UV filter, although I'm not sure I'd buy one just yet. Borrowing one might be useful, though.

[elFloyd]

If the tank is having a bacterial bloom, I'd consider adding a UV filter, although I'm not sure I'd buy one just yet. Borrowing one might be useful, though.

UV sterilizer is in use.

[bertoni]

If the sterilizer is working properly, it likely will be able to kill the bloom fairly quickly, although the skimmer might need some time to clear up the water. If the bulb is too small or too old or the flow is too low, that could be an issue, though.

[Montireef]

Any news with the Kordon Itch Attack trials? I had some success time ago and I'd like to know if other people are.

[DNA]

We don't have any of the bottled plankton here so I can't try that on my tank.
Is it something that works in any good permanent way?

---

It's been a long time since I looked this good at my water column as I did last night.
I compared the mass from right after the lights had gone out to 4 hours later.

There was a steady increase and after 4 hours it was much more dense than I thought it would be. (~5x)
I saw loads of brown "dino" colored quite large 1/24" (1mm) clumps floating around.
A cloud or haze can be seen in the strong beam from the flashlight that seems to be a part of my reef tanks night life.

A lot is going on in the tanks microscopic world.
Most of it has to be living plankton looking for food.

I have a vast number of species in this size category already, but amphipods I only see rarely as dead skeletons.
I used to see them frequently in my pre-dino years of reefing.

[cal_stir]

I dosed ich attack for 5 days with my simmer and carbon off, it has slowed it down, now green algae is growing on the glass and cyano is starting to bloom which I think might be a good sign, I will try to put some under the microscope tonight.

[DNA]

A survey on dinoflagellates in reef tanks.

I wanted to do it years ago, but since we have not yet got to the essence of dinoflagellates I think it's the best step in moving forward with this mistery.
The aim is for us to easily be able to compare our tanks and parameters in order to pick out what we have in common and hopefully what it is that makes dinos tick.

It will be very extensive and next to everything about your tank will be included.
Finishing it should take less than 10 minutes.

Send me a private message here on RC.
Once I have 5 willing to take part it's on.
Everyone with a dinoflagellate problem can take part.

It will be categorized into the types of dinos you have.
Reefers with unidentified dinos can also participate. (Identification is very important, so do it first if you possibly can).

A spreadsheet format is what I have in mind.
I'd send it to you via email and once you have filled it in and sent it back you'll receive everyone else's contribution.

Updates will be emailed to everyone when new info gets added.

-----

[Montireef]

Great idea. I'm in with ostreopsis.

[Amphiprion]

I dosed ich attack for 5 days with my simmer and carbon off, it has slowed it down, now green algae is growing on the glass and cyano is starting to bloom which I think might be a good sign, I will try to put some under the microscope tonight.

Encourage these for as long as you can. I haven't seen any signs of dinoflagellates for well over a month now. I never got the chance to try ich attack, but I kept the skimmer off and fed generously to encourage as much algae as reasonably possible. Plenty of cyano and macroalgal growth ensued. I've even been able to do several 40% water changes (as an experiment) since to no detriment. I did run my skimmer for a couple of weeks afterward (no dino appeared) and all that did was kill off some of my tunicates, so I've left it off.

[Royce7586]

I dosed ich attack for 5 days with my simmer and carbon off, it has slowed it down, now green algae is growing on the glass and cyano is starting to bloom which I think might be a good sign, I will try to put some under the microscope tonight.

ya for me the ich attack didn't kill them just seemed to slow growth drastically, Keep siphoning them out and you should beat it if it works the same as it did for me. I did get cyano and green algae I am now working on getting rid of the cyano, my foxface eats every speck of green algae :P but dinos still seem to be gone

[dcarwile]

Been following this thread for a long time. I'm also in with ostreopsis ID'd. I have them undercontrol with NoPox, but am still interested in a cure/permanent solution. DNA, forums won't let me PM you because I don't have enough posts lol.

[Montireef]

NOPOX???

If I put a single drop I get a dino bloom!

[yeldarbj]

Been following this thread for a long time. I'm also in with ostreopsis ID'd. I have them undercontrol with NoPox, but am still interested in a cure/permanent solution. DNA, forums won't let me PM you because I don't have enough posts lol.

If you want a permanent solution, then I'd suggest nutrients, nutrients, nutrients. I've been skimmerless for 10 months now and dino free (ostreospsis) for 8 months. I run a small home made algae turf scrubber for filtration and have a full sps tank. Algae is your friend and the dino's enemy.

[dcarwile]

Yea monti. I put in max dosage of nopox and dinos are gone, as soon as i stop they come back. I can test it like clockwork. Vitamin C dosing was my most recent attempt to get off the nopox. I attempted an Algal Turf Scrubber and it go covered in dino instead of turf algae lol. I tried the growing skimmate bacteria and dosing skimmate as mentioned earlier here. I have not tried the lab cultured parasite one of you mentioned. I've tried everything in this thread except the Kordon and UV, lol. I have a mixed reef. NoPox ****es off my softies and acans at this dosage(no nutrients), but my SPS thrive. Can't find a happy medium where everything is happy and dino doesn't show. Can't permanently eradicate it and don't want to tear down the tank for something that is manageable just annoying. I can give a lot more details of everything I've dosed and done to my tank over the last couple years.

[Montireef]

If you want a permanent solution, then I'd suggest nutrients, nutrients, nutrients. I've been skimmerless for 10 months now and dino free (ostreospsis) for 8 months. I run a small home made algae turf scrubber for filtration and have a full sps tank. Algae is your friend and the dino's enemy.

I agree, if I switch on my skimmer I get a dino bloom a few days later.
Now I am dosing KNO3 and everything looks better. I have no algae anyway, not even the smallest one, they just don't thrive although my big tank (600 gal) sits in the sun (it is outside the house).

[yeldarbj]

I understand how that can happen - the dinos growing on the screen instead of algae. That's exactly what happened to my macro algae. Did you have enough nutrients to grow algae. It took my tank at least a month after removing the skimmer to build up some nutrients, and I was feeding often and heavy to increase phosphates. I also slowly dosed the other basic ingredients of fertilizer - nitrate, potassium, iron, silicates, iodide. My goal was to grow whatever I could - algae, cyano, diatoms. Eventually my screen grew algae and dinos started to diminish.

[Adrnalnrsh]

NOPOX???

If I put a single drop I get a dino bloom!


Funny, I got dino's after switching to Nopox

[DNA]

My tank has had bloomin dinos without any macro algae in my tank.
I have now a huge ball of Cheatomorhpa in my sump and I prune it down by about a basket ball weekly.
I have let it go to biblical proportions without having any effect on my dinos.

[DNA]

There was an environmental accident recently somewhere with massive amounts of iron.
At first it caused an algae bloom of some sorts with increased iron and then it killed it off.

Iron is known for tinting nature red or brown.
I wonder if it plays a part in our dinos fancy brown color.

[yeldarbj]

My tank has had bloomin dinos without any macro algae in my tank.
I have now a huge ball of Cheatomorhpa in my sump and I prune it down by about a basket ball weekly.
I have let it go to biblical proportions without having any effect on my dinos.

I think some sort of "micro" algae or turf like algae is the key. I had to remove my cheato for a while because it just ended up as another host for the dinos.

I'd speculate that it's not the algae itself, but the organisms that survive on the algae that helps to clear out the dinos.

[dcarwile]

Yea Chaeto won't grow. I never gave the turf scrubber that much time so i'm not sure. I just saw it as another place to grow dinos and gave up on it honestly. I had hair algae, doses an algaecide (whoops!), then got cyano so I dosed chemiclean, then hello Dino. Since then i've been dealing with dino. Occasionally, I can get cyano to grow a few days then dino consumes it. So far my only answer has been to overdose nopox(i dose for max nutrient load instead of the recommend ml because i know you can't read tests kits when you have algae or bacteria consuming it immediately). Haven't read nitrate or phosphate on my red sea or api test kits since i got cyano. I think NoPox just act similar to the guys dosing beneficial bacteria - outcompetes. Thinking about removing my substrate completely and giving the ATS another go. For clarity, i still skimmed when i tried the ATS previously.

[Montireef]

After 6 months dealing with ostreopsis and amphidinium, here are my findings:

- Some dinos are almost always in our tanks, they just don't thrive (amphidinum). Others are caught.
- They can be easily triggered by a drop in PO4, specially when rapid.
- The best way to deal and get rid of them is competition. Foster other forms of life, specially algae that needs some PO4 to thrive. If you are lucky you can get other kind of dinoflagellates like oxyhrris marina and beat them very fast.
- Some kind of them form cysts and therefore are really difficult to get rid of. They can disappear for months and suddenly show up again if conditions are favorable.
- Stong flows help them spread and make the problem worse.
- Nutrient depletion slow them down but won't help on the long run. It is better to foul the water slowly increasing feedings and stopping waterchanges, this is food for dinos, but also for competitors that eventually will suffocate them.

As an example of this I am succesfully getting rid of ostreopsis by dosing large amounts of phytoplankton. No algae at all and water is pristine; NO3 and PO4 are still undetectable but high enough to permit other forms of life like copepods, worms, amphipods...

[DNA]

Good info Montireef!

---
SPS RiP

It started with the growth stopping on a football sized Acropora.
After that the color faded.
Next many of the the tips just peeled off, but it took a while.
Over the last 24 hours 95% of the tissue just flew off.
There are a few tiny patches left. That is often how events like this end.

The good news is that I don't need to search for the culprit.
The bad news is that this is depressing.

[Montireef]

Very sorry for your loss DNA, I know how you feel as I have lost more than 100 fist size acroporas because of ostreopsis.

Don't despair, I'm sure you will eventually beat it.

[bertoni]

I'm sorry to hear about your Acropora. I wish I had some useful ideas to try. :(

[bheron]

After 6 months dealing with ostreopsis and amphidinium, here are my findings:

- Some dinos are almost always in our tanks, they just don't thrive (amphidinum). Others are caught.
- They can be easily triggered by a drop in PO4, specially when rapid.
- The best way to deal and get rid of them is competition. Foster other forms of life, specially algae that needs some PO4 to thrive. If you are lucky you can get other kind of dinoflagellates like oxyhrris marina and beat them very fast.
- Some kind of them form cysts and therefore are really difficult to get rid of. They can disappear for months and suddenly show up again if conditions are favorable.
- Stong flows help them spread and make the problem worse.
- Nutrient depletion slow them down but won't help on the long run. It is better to foul the water slowly increasing feedings and stopping waterchanges, this is food for dinos, but also for competitors that eventually will suffocate them.

As an example of this I am succesfully getting rid of ostreopsis by dosing large amounts of phytoplankton. No algae at all and water is pristine; NO3 and PO4 are still undetectable but high enough to permit other forms of life like copepods, worms, amphipods...

Thanks for posting this Montireef! I'm not able to read this entire thread right now so your summary (and others the past few pages) have helped.

I've been battling Dinos for years. Completely broke down my last setup (220g) to start fresh. Bleached, acid washed the tank, same for for live rock, brand new deep sand bed. 7 months with a new tank and they are back! I have a very small bioload - 5 small chromis. Tank has been doing great until the sudden outbreak.

I'm hoping b/c my tank is still fairly new with only 5 small fish and two simple corals I can salvage and put up a real fight for once. I've battled so many down in this hobby and nothing has ever broken me. However, this may finally be enough to make me quit once and for all.

Some questions for the forum:

- I do have a simple microscope at home, is there a page in this thread that can help me ID what I have?

- i might be better off than others stopping water changes since my bioload is so small? funny since i've been on a mad water change run the past week or so.

- i have a bunch of filter socks so will run them

- should i turn off the skimmer too?

- while less/lower lighting isnt a cure, will it help speed up the recovery?

- what about adding more fish for the bioload? that kind of scares me.

[DNA]

Identify your dinos first before anything else.
http://www.algaeid.com/identification/

[adamwheel]

Apologies. I posted this in the dino experiment forum today but thought more may see it here.

I had my new DIY 178 gal up and running for less than a year when dinos took over and wiped out my SPS colonies I'd had for 3-4 years. I do not have a positive ID (90% sure they're Ostreopsis) on the species but did bring a microscope home from work to confirm I have dinos.

There were some maintenance issues I wanted to deal with anyway, so I decided to do a complete tank tear down.

All fish and inverts went to QT and are currently there awaiting the restart. Inverts were dipped in fresh water and hydrogen peroxide prior to entering QT.

One of my QTs was getting enough light to allow the dinos to bloom. I had it placed near my grow light for this year's garden. That QT was shut down and all inverts and fish are now in a 40 gallon breeder that only receives ambient light.

Questions: I'm worried about introducing them again during restart. I plan on running fresh water through the system before adding salt.

I have some nice inverts but wonder how to add them with confidence.

Any suggestions on both fish and invert additions?

Sorry for the long post and thanks for the help,

Adam

[raidendex]

Here is what I got. Re-post from other thread. Since I have taken the pictures below I have played with microscope further and with different light settings I can see a little tail on them (flagella) and some waving going on around the perimeter.

At night it goes away for the most part (likely due to the water movement), but during the day it multiplies and covers most surfaces like rocks and sand pretty quickly. Appearance is of a mat covering surfaces, with few strings coming up with air bubbles in them here and there, but high flow likely doesn't let those get too big. With flow pointed directly at the thing even with a turkey baster I can remove it fairly easily, but normal water movements is not enough.
Finally, I do not see it bothering corals in any way nor any other inhabitants other than snails. They do seem to be a bit slow, possibly due to lack of food since most surfaces are covered with either this stuff of coraline and they do not eat this brown stuff.

Here are some pictures from the tank and from microscope (click to see bigger versions). I did go down to 100x on microscope, but that seem to have crushed most of these cells and what came out looks like bunch of smaller cells. In fruit terms it's like a transparent pomegranate. Don't have a picture of squashed ones, but it seems like they left the cell shaped box behind, i.e. looks like something diatoms build out of silica around the main cell body. So based on that for now I presume this is some sort of diatom.

http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/thumb/IMG_1110.jpg (http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/IMG_1110.jpg) http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/thumb/IMG_1115.jpg (http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/IMG_1115.jpg)

http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/thumb/IMG_1118.jpg (http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/IMG_1118.jpg) http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/thumb/IMG_1125.jpg (http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/IMG_1125.jpg)

http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/thumb/IMG_1123.jpg (http://reef.verynotgood.info/image/2015/04/22/IMG_1123.jpg)

[DNA]

Adamwheel your are certain to reintroduce the dinos with your current livestock.
If you are lucky they might not thrive in the new one, but there seems to be a trend in getting dinos again after restart.

---

Raidendex. I'd say you definately have dinos, not diatoms. (Dinos have a hard outer shell).
I'm sure it's not Ostreopsis. Perhaps it's Prorocentrum or something else.
Do take a look at pants site. http://www.algaeid.com/identification/

[raidendex]

Yep, I looked at that website. While mine do look similar they seem to be a little different. Here are some videos I just took. Last one has a little better detail where you should be able to make out flagellum.

Sorry for being a bit shaky I was just using DSLR on a tripod looking into one of the holes at the top of the microscope with 100mm macro lens. But it seem to come out well. I'm glad I did not buy microscope with some crappy 1mp camera for extra $100-200.

Not sure the exact magnification that these came out at since I did not use the eye pieces, so the video names just go by the objective used.

These are still being processed atm, so check back in a bit if nothing shows up for some of them.
WYb-S_hy85M CJzcTH4yNRs

kGlQtXCTHT0 4ew7iq8yppk

[Pants]

Yep, I looked at that website. While mine do look similar they seem to be a little different.

Very nice shots.

You are right these are a bit different. These are Gambierdiscus. They are related to Ostreopsis. They cause ciguatera shellfish poisoning so you'll find a good amount of info o them if you google that name.

They don't ship terribly well so I haven't gotten a good sample. (maybe that means they will be easier to kill) I've also only seen them in tanks from Europeans.

Like Ostreopsis, they encyst, so beware them coming back if you do get rid of them.

I'd appreciate a sample if you wanted to mail one up here.

[raidendex]

What strange is that I shared water/rock/sand with another system as recently as two weeks ago and in that tank they did not grow at all it seems, only a bit on the chaeto. They do also seem to go away with time and running carbon helps to keep snails alive.

[raidendex]

Btw what made it come back was me adding about 400-500ml of H2O2 which was way too much as I found out :) even corals changed colors, although none died due to it.

What I had for a while since dinos disappeared for the most part was a turf looking dark algae all over the rock. It did not really hurt anything, just made the rock look not super pretty and if you were to run a toothbrush on it clumps of "dust" would come up. Because of this I tried to dose some NoPox for few weeks, but didn't really see much change and the "new" smell from the skimmer was not working for me. So I stopped the NoPox. This after about a week or so cause few patches of cyano here and there. Being somewhat bored I decided to H2O2 the cyano, thus the large dose.

This did remove the cyano, but what came back was a blanket of dinos. So basically as of right now it looks like the turn algae is somewhat suffocated by dinos and nothing is really competing with them. Chaeto is growing in the sump, but not too fast. So I would say that eventually some other algae will step in and reduce the dino population again, however it seems like they will likely to remain there and wait for a new opportunity later on.

It is strange to me that my second tank never got this, even though I made no attempt to shield the systems. For water changes I would drain water from the 180 with dinos and put it in the other system, yet it never would grow anything. The only difference I see between them is that there seem to be a small clump of some unknown redish algae growing in the sump, but I doubt that it alone is responsible for keeping dinos at bay.

[DNA]

These are good videos raidendex.

I think Pants should ask for permission to use them on his site.

[DNA]

A survey on dinoflagellates in reef tanks.

I wanted to do it years ago, but since we have not yet got to the essence of dinoflagellates I think it's the best step in moving forward with this mistery.
The aim is for us to easily be able to compare our tanks and parameters in order to pick out what we have in common and hopefully what it is that makes dinos tick.

It will be very extensive and next to everything about your tank will be included.
Finishing it should take less than 10 minutes.

Send me a private message here on RC.
Once I have 5 willing to take part it's on.
Everyone with a dinoflagellate problem can take part.

It will be categorized into the types of dinos you have.
Reefers with unidentified dinos can also participate. (Identification is very important, so do it first if you possibly can).

A spreadsheet format is what I have in mind.
I'd send it to you via email and once you have filled it in and sent it back you'll receive everyone else's contribution.

Updates will be emailed to everyone when new info gets added.

-----

This is a repost.

[raidendex]

I can try to ship it a little later, busy with end of the semester stuff atm. Or if shipping is a concern maybe I could do whatever you were going to do at my own university. If you know anyone at UCF biology dept. I could bring a sample to them or I can go make friends myself lol.
If you want to use those videos, go ahead. I'm not into the whole copyright thing and feel and information should be free :)

http://www.kopimi.com/kopimi/copyme2_blck_bg.gif

[Pants]

A survey on dinoflagellates in reef tanks.

I wanted to do it years ago, but since we have not yet got to the essence of dinoflagellates I think it's the best step in moving forward with this mistery.
The aim is for us to easily be able to compare our tanks and parameters in order to pick out what we have in common and hopefully what it is that makes dinos tick.

It will be very extensive and next to everything about your tank will be included.
Finishing it should take less than 10 minutes.

Send me a private message here on RC.
Once I have 5 willing to take part it's on.
Everyone with a dinoflagellate problem can take part.

It will be categorized into the types of dinos you have.
Reefers with unidentified dinos can also participate. (Identification is very important, so do it first if you possibly can).

A spreadsheet format is what I have in mind.
I'd send it to you via email and once you have filled it in and sent it back you'll receive everyone else's contribution.

Updates will be emailed to everyone when new info gets added.

-----

This is a repost.

When I did this a few years ago I used google docs. You can have online survey that feeds the data into a google spreadsheet. It worked really nicely.

[Adrnalnrsh]

What magnification do you need for a microscope?

EDIT: Dumb question! I saw the settings used in the videos above.

[raidendex]

Yep, 40x objective seems about as high as you would want to go. At 100x I squashed cells lol before I got in focus. 10x or 20x 25x all should be fine to the view the 40x.

Without reading the whole thread, anyone try running low micron filter sock for a while to see if that does anything?

I ordered some 1 micron socks (not sure how long they will last before clogging). Will try to blow stuff off the rocks and run water through the sock. For now I installed whatever brs sells, think those are 200. Usually I do not run any, but I guess it won't hurt to catch some of these guys and swap socks once a day.

[Adrnalnrsh]

Here's a crappy picture I took can anyone ID it?

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/24/8849c7046b348ccc681e99e51da9340c.jpg

Here's another

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/24/ef63eb206731822e2b9ff2f5be58090f.jpg

[yeldarbj]

Without reading the whole thread, anyone try running low micron filter sock for a while to see if that does anything?

I didn't use a 1 micron filter sock, but I did use a micron filter with diatom powder for a few hours every couple days. After blowing the dinos off the rock work, the filter would bog down very quickly. It was an effective short term solution to remove them without doing a water change, but they would always grow back quickly within a day or two.

[Royce7586]

I dosed ich attack for 5 days with my simmer and carbon off, it has slowed it down, now green algae is growing on the glass and cyano is starting to bloom which I think might be a good sign, I will try to put some under the microscope tonight.

Any updates on the ich attack cal?

I would really like to see more people try it as I am pretty sure it is what saved my tank

[cal_stir]

I've left the skimmer, uv and carbon off since dosing the ich attack, I run a sulphur denitrator and dose lanthanum chloride so no3 and po4 are under control, I have nothing but green micro algae growing on the glass with 0 diatoms and dinos, for almost a year the glass has been brown. I still have some small patches of diatoms and dinos on the substrate but the cyano that is growing seems to be choking it out, I still find dinos in my 10uM socks but the rocks and corals look great. I'm going to stay the course of letting it go and see what happens, it seems to be working. I am doing regular water changes again as well.

[Royce7586]

I've left the skimmer, uv and carbon off since dosing the ich attack, I run a sulphur denitrator and dose lanthanum chloride so no3 and po4 are under control, I have nothing but green micro algae growing on the glass with 0 diatoms and dinos, for almost a year the glass has been brown. I still have some small patches of diatoms and dinos on the substrate but the cyano that is growing seems to be choking it out, I still find dinos in my 10uM socks but the rocks and corals look great. I'm going to stay the course of letting it go and see what happens, it seems to be working. I am doing regular water changes again as well.

sounds exactly like mine cyano took hold after but cyano is a godsend compared to dinos

[Aquarist007]

One of the tanks I maintain..39 gal. Had a bad outbreak of what I thought was green and slime algae 6 months ago. I approached the problem from the point of view of limiting phosphates and nitrates. None of the typical methods worked.
Even though I have never had diatoms in any of the tanks I maintain over the last 10 years I decided to address the problem from the possibility I did.
I attached a uv sterilizer .. Way over what was necessary for this volume( I took it off my 250 gal system)
I hooked up a Rena canister filter.. Again good for a 200 gal system
I continued to run a HOT Magnum canister wit a 10 micron polishing filter
I also contined to run the hob protein skimmer
No water changes for 3 weeks

Diatom algae is completely gone now leaving the green algae on the rock which can easily be harvested by hand

The delima now is what filtration system to use so the problem doesn't reacur

[raidendex]

Turned off my sump lighting. Seems like that just gives dinos constant place to grow. Now there is a lot of time they have to go without light.

Waiting for 1 micron socks to arrive and will add them to the system, will clean the sump at the same time and install GFO reactor there, probably will replace carbon in the other reactor at the same time.

Once new socks are in will keep same lighting schedule of DT only. Will blow off dinos at the end of each day of the rocks/walls/sand and change the filter sock hour or so later.

Will see what effect this will have and hopefully 1 micron socks will not clog hour later :) Also have some 25 and 50 micron ones on the way, will probably switch to one of them once I see a change in dino population.