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-   -   High Nutrient Macro Algae/Sea Grass Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2704551)

vlangel 02/27/2020 11:51 AM

High Nutrient Macro Algae/Sea Grass Reef
 
Hi folks! I have a vision for a natural looking reef tank that is easily maintained, active with fish (for the display's relatively small size), and very natural in appearance (hopefully in a pleasing way. I hope to utilize nature's balance of macro algae/Sea grasses to take up the excess nutrients and the multitude of fish to provide nutrients for the coral, macro algae and seagrasses. Also the macro algae and seagrasses should provide an excellant environment for copepod and amphipod production which can feed coral and fish.

This tank was bought Oct 1st 2016 to be a Seahorse tank and here is a pic of it being leak tested.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GC3gp34pndnQRV5V6

vlangel 02/27/2020 12:04 PM

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Rc6iN8Ek9ip7pWqN8
This is the tank when it was set up and running. As you can see it has a painted mural of a seahorse on the back glass and the bottom was painted to look like sand but is actually bare bottom in the photo. Seahorses do better I found in BB tanks to control detritus build up which fuels bacteria, (the bane to seahorses existence).

Eventually I got bored with the BB since I do not like BB tanks and I decided to add sand and thought with over the top husbandry I could keep the seahorses healthy. I wanted more dimension to the aquascape and so I used some of my LR to make a retaining wall so that the aquarium had 2 distinct levels.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9HTUUF4cM4JuLWpt7
I was very pleased with the effect. Unfortunately I was not able to keep the seahorses healthy in the tank so I moved them into a BB 30 gallon and this 56 gallon became an AIO tank.

vlangel 02/27/2020 12:46 PM

This is where we are at presently. 8 fish are in the 30g along with the 3 shrimp and most of the coral. The 2 barnacle blennies are still in the 56g (without a heater, uhhg!?) but their holes are in rock that I did not want to remove. Hopefully they will be ok. Also snails and feather dusters stayed in the 56g. Tonight I will get my hubby to help me pull the 56g away from the wall so I can start the art work on it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/brbrNVJ6XnqAoWpP6
This is how things look!

Michael Hoaster 02/27/2020 11:05 PM

This sounds amazing! You're moving quickly. Impressive. I look forward to following! Enjoy the process!

vlangel 02/28/2020 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster (Post 25654167)
This sounds amazing! You're moving quickly. Impressive. I look forward to following! Enjoy the process!

You're right, I am moving quickly. Part of that is because I have been pondering this change for a long time. The other part is that spring is coming and I am an outside kind of a gal (who loves to dig in my garden, mow grass and prune) and I would like this change to my tank system settled and finished before the outdoors calls my name!

Today I plan to do the artwork on the back glass. Mostly what that will entail is me adding gorgonian and caulerpa type images which will be very much in keeping with my tank theme.

Michael Hoaster 02/28/2020 08:48 AM

Cool beans, Dawn! I know what you mean about pondering a change and waiting to make it. It's nice to finally be able to DO the stuff you planned! Good luck with the artwork. I wondered what you were going to do. It sounds perfect.

My wife loves to garden. We end up competing for attention with our gardens-hers in the yard, mine in my tank. It's so nice to kick back and enjoy your handiwork! I think you should add soil from your garden. The seagrasses love it!

vlangel 02/28/2020 08:51 AM

The artwork was much easier than I expected. I started with adding gorgonian images. I figured that I needed to scrape paint off the back in order to add anything. I began with using the metal edge to one of my algae scrapers. I got an x-acto blade to make finer lines. As I watched my depiction of gorgonian take shape I decided not to add any caulerpa blades. I also decided that it's not necessary to add paint where I etched. Actually the absents of paint is a neat effect and I am going to leave it that way. The poor representation of a seahorse is now de-emphasized and I am much happier with the mural. The water is cloudy at the moment but I will take a pic when things clear up.

vlangel 02/28/2020 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster (Post 25654216)

My wife loves to garden. We end up competing for attention with our gardens-hers in the yard, mine in my tank. It's so nice to kick back and enjoy your handiwork! I think you should add soil from your garden. The seagrasses love it!

Ha ha, I have both gardens...the one outside and the one in the aquarium so I get all the attention!

I do plan to use some of my garden soil in the 30 gallon seagrass portion of the system. Thanks for the suggestion.

Michael Hoaster 02/28/2020 12:45 PM

That's the magic of art - you start out with an idea, and then the art takes you in a new direction. Your etching sounds awesome!

It's kind of a big leap, putting dirt in an aquarium. We're so conditioned to put only clean stuff in them. Have fun with it!

vlangel 03/01/2020 07:28 AM

I worked on the tank system Friday and Saturday. Things are progressing. The former 30 gallon tank has been taken down and reset up next to the sump in the basement. I added about 2-3 gallons of compost dirt to the bottom of the substrate and sand on top of that. As you can imagine the water is very dirty so I have an Aquaclear filter with floss running to help clear it up. I built the DIY overflow but with using 1" PVC it's a bugger to prime. I think I need an Aqua lifter to make sure that it does not loseliving room. I may end up just buying a HOB overflow if I do not trust this one.

All the fish, coral and inverts are back in the 56 gallon display and everything looks good. I am happy with the slightly different aquascape and the mural. I am really happy with just 1 tank in the livingroom. 2 tanks always seemed too much.

Samson seems to be doing well in HT. He continues to eat and in general seems fine. Treatment is for 4-8 days and today is day 4. The aquarist who enquired about taking Samson has not contacted me so maybe he got cold feet about keeping ponies? I could possibly keep Samson in the 30 gallon Seagrass tank and not connect it to the system yet. With it next to the sump WCs will be easy. The only down side is that I won't have eyes on Samson as much. I will have to see what the next few days bring.

I still mean to take some pics in the next few days.

vlangel 03/02/2020 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlangel (Post 25654654)
I worked on the tank system Friday and Saturday. Things are progressing. The former 30 gallon tank has been taken down and reset up next to the sump in the basement. I added about 2-3 gallons of compost dirt to the bottom of the substrate and sand on top of that. As you can imagine the water is very dirty so I have an Aquaclear filter with floss running to help clear it up. I built the DIY overflow but with using 1" PVC it's a bugger to prime. I think I need an Aqua lifter to make sure that it does not lose a syphon. I may end up just buying a HOB overflow if I do not trust this one.

All the fish, coral and inverts are back in the 56 gallon display and everything looks good. I am happy with the slightly different aquascape and the mural. I am really happy with just 1 tank in the livingroom. 2 tanks always seemed too much.

Samson seems to be doing well in HT. He continues to eat and in general seems fine. Treatment is for 4-8 days and today is day 4. The aquarist who enquired about taking Samson has not contacted me so maybe he got cold feet about keeping ponies? I could possibly keep Samson in the 30 gallon Seagrass tank and not connect it to the system yet. With it next to the sump WCs will be easy. The only down side is that I won't have eyes on Samson as much. I will have to see what the next few days bring.

I still mean to take some pics in the next few days.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EWQ4nXMXMG6aQyYm7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qcdhYRbAHQ9RjqJRA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xmYdaDeQ258n7iTt9

Michael Hoaster 03/02/2020 01:31 PM

Nothing wrong with quoting yourself, but I'd guess you meant to add something to that.

vlangel 03/02/2020 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster (Post 25654937)
Nothing wrong with quoting yourself, but I'd guess you meant to add something to that.

Yes, you are correct. Uhhg, technology! Gotta love it and sometimes hate it! Ha ha!!!
I added some pics! Everything is still quite cloudy but the system is up and running pretty well. I have some of my feather caulerpa in a bucket so it does not restrict flow around the teeth of the overflow weir pipe. Eventually I will plant it all when the water clears more. The sanded is 5-6 inches deep so I should be able to plant some real seagrass. I added some micro and asterina stars and the caulerpa is crawling with pods. I do not expect the 30 gallon to go through an ugly algae stage because the 56 gallon display is so established.

Michael Hoaster 03/03/2020 11:12 AM

That should be interesting, adding a new tank to an established system. Maybe a mini-cycle? Whatever happens, I'm sure you can handle it. Enjoy!

vlangel 03/03/2020 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster (Post 25655123)
That should be interesting, adding a new tank to an established system. Maybe a mini-cycle? Whatever happens, I'm sure you can handle it. Enjoy!

I suppose it could go through a mini cycle since the garden dirt and sand are all new but between the live rock, sand and water volume of the 56 gallon and 20 gallon sump, there is a lot of bio-fjlter potential. I guess I might get diatomous algae because of the silica in the new sand.

Today the water looks clearer. I am running floss in the aquaclear pump to catch some of the fine particulate. I am getting there and so far I am pleased.

vlangel 03/03/2020 02:40 PM

https://www.instagram.com/create/style/


https://www.instagram.com/p/B9SSu6IJ...on_share_sheet

The display tank is slowly clearing up.

Michael Hoaster 03/05/2020 10:06 PM

I can look at the google pics but not the instagrams. Hope all is going well!

Scrubber_steve 03/07/2020 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlangel (Post 25654017)
Hi folks! I have a vision for a natural looking reef tank that is easily maintained, active with fish (for the display's relatively small size), and very natural in appearance (hopefully in a pleasing way. I hope to utilize nature's balance of macro algae/Sea grasses to take up the excess nutrients and the multitude of fish to provide nutrients for the coral, macro algae and seagrasses. Also the macro algae and seagrasses should provide an excellant environment for copepod and amphipod production which can feed coral and fish.

This tank was bought Oct 1st 2016 to be a Seahorse tank and here is a pic of it being leak tested.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GC3gp34pndnQRV5V6

Sounds sublime. Michael will be of great help.

I,m inspired to start something similar using the exported Ulva from my scrubber.

Good luck with it, I'll be watching,,,, in a nice way .:spin1:

Scrubber_steve 03/07/2020 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlangel (Post 25654017)
I have a vision...
I hope to utilize nature's balance of macro algae/Sea grasses to take up the excess nutrients and the multitude of fish to provide nutrients for the coral, macro algae and seagrasses. Also the macro algae and seagrasses should provide an excellant environment for copepod and amphipod production which can feed

This is a quote from a Ron Shimek article you may find inspiring ?

"Upon examination of the material of a coral reef it becomes apparent that corals are only one component of the life on such a reef, and although they appear large and evident, their contribution to the actual amount of living material on the reef is relatively small.

In their pioneering study of the reef at Enewetak atoll, the Odums in 1955 showed that the majority of non-bacterial biomass on a "coral" reef was actually in the form of algae. They found that various types of algae were everywhere. There were algae growing in the coral tissues, of course, as zooxanthellae, but additionally there were algae growing freely and widely across the coral reef. The algae on the surface of the reef were diverse in form, and belonged to many groups, from large green algae such as Codium, to coralline red algae, to coralline green algae, to diatoms and dinoflagellates. In point of fact, they found enough algae on the reef to consider it far more reasonable to call such reefs algal reefs instead of coral reefs. I wonder how many aquarists would be hobbyists today if these biogenic structures were named after their most abundant life forms and called "algal reefs" rather than coral reefs.

In addition to the algae growing visibly on the surface of the rocks, the Odums were surprised to find that algae were growing INSIDE of all the substrates on a reef. Algae, primarily filamentous green algae, lived inside of coral heads, inside of dead coral skeleton, and inside of all coral rock and rubble. In fact, on an old coral atoll such as Enewetak where all evidence of the volcano that gave the reef its start has vanished with subsidence (the volcanic basis for the reef at Enewetak is found under some 5,000 feet (1515 m) of coral reef deposited over several million of years coral growth), virtually all of the rocks are riddled with algae and contain a lot of algal growth and biomass.

The Odums found that in the average coral head, in the region of the polyps, the density of the algal component was about 0.004 grams/cm3 and the animal component was about 0.021 g/cm3, while among the bases of the polyps the filamentous algae had a density of about 0.022 g/cm3. Below the polyp zone of the coral head the algae had a density of 0.037 g/cm3. In other words, in a coral head with living coral tissue on it, the animal component accounted for about one-fourth of the total, 0.021 g/cm3, while the various algal components amounted for 0.063 g/cm3. Interestingly, as well, the filamentous algal component of a coral head had a much greater biomass (about 16 times greater) than did the zooxanthellae in the coral.

The algae in the coral heads do not die when the coral animal does, and the amount of the coral algae in various rock components of the reef is shown in Figure 1. This figure, modified from the Odums' 1955 paper, shows the relative biomass of several rocky areas on the reef. I have colored the algal biomass amounts green, and the biomass inside rock that could be collected as live rock in yellow. The amount of algae living inside the various components of coral rubble and rock is quite significant, and those algae are quite important to our discussion of live rock porosity. If corals are grown in environments free of the algae that colonize their skeletons, those skeletons are typically quite porous. However, the algae growing within the rock add to the porosity by dissolving fine holes for their filaments."

.http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-0...ture/index.php

vlangel 03/08/2020 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster (Post 25655699)
I can look at the google pics but not the instagrams. Hope all is going well!

Thanks for letting me know about the pics Michael. I woneeded if the Google pics were viewable by anyone but me and you answered that. I am surprised that the Instagram pics are not viewable, but maybe I posted them incorrectly.

I hope to make a video soon which should be better. My new phone does not take as good of pics as my prior phone.

vlangel 03/08/2020 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrubber_steve (Post 25656062)
This is a quote from a Ron Shimek article you may find inspiring ?

"Upon examination of the material of a coral reef it becomes apparent that corals are only one component of the life on such a reef, and although they appear large and evident, their contribution to the actual amount of living material on the reef is relatively small.

In their pioneering study of the reef at Enewetak atoll, the Odums in 1955 showed that the majority of non-bacterial biomass on a "coral" reef was actually in the form of algae. They found that various types of algae were everywhere. There were algae growing in the coral tissues, of course, as zooxanthellae, but additionally there were algae growing freely and widely across the coral reef. The algae on the surface of the reef were diverse in form, and belonged to many groups, from large green algae such as Codium, to coralline red algae, to coralline green algae, to diatoms and dinoflagellates. In point of fact, they found enough algae on the reef to consider it far more reasonable to call such reefs algal reefs instead of coral reefs. I wonder how many aquarists would be hobbyists today if these biogenic structures were named after their most abundant life forms and called "algal reefs" rather than coral reefs.

In addition to the algae growing visibly on the surface of the rocks, the Odums were surprised to find that algae were growing INSIDE of all the substrates on a reef. Algae, primarily filamentous green algae, lived inside of coral heads, inside of dead coral skeleton, and inside of all coral rock and rubble. In fact, on an old coral atoll such as Enewetak where all evidence of the volcano that gave the reef its start has vanished with subsidence (the volcanic basis for the reef at Enewetak is found under some 5,000 feet (1515 m) of coral reef deposited over several million of years coral growth), virtually all of the rocks are riddled with algae and contain a lot of algal growth and biomass.

The Odums found that in the average coral head, in the region of the polyps, the density of the algal component was about 0.004 grams/cm3 and the animal component was about 0.021 g/cm3, while among the bases of the polyps the filamentous algae had a density of about 0.022 g/cm3. Below the polyp zone of the coral head the algae had a density of 0.037 g/cm3. In other words, in a coral head with living coral tissue on it, the animal component accounted for about one-fourth of the total, 0.021 g/cm3, while the various algal components amounted for 0.063 g/cm3. Interestingly, as well, the filamentous algal component of a coral head had a much greater biomass (about 16 times greater) than did the zooxanthellae in the coral.

The algae in the coral heads do not die when the coral animal does, and the amount of the coral algae in various rock components of the reef is shown in Figure 1. This figure, modified from the Odums' 1955 paper, shows the relative biomass of several rocky areas on the reef. I have colored the algal biomass amounts green, and the biomass inside rock that could be collected as live rock in yellow. The amount of algae living inside the various components of coral rubble and rock is quite significant, and those algae are quite important to our discussion of live rock porosity. If corals are grown in environments free of the algae that colonize their skeletons, those skeletons are typically quite porous. However, the algae growing within the rock add to the porosity by dissolving fine holes for their filaments."

.http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-0...ture/index.php

Thank you scrubber Steve for contributing to my thread and the article on live rock. I will appreciate any and all comments as my tank progresses toward my vision.

The article was fascinating to me since I am an old hobbyist from the late 90s who was taught that live rock is the bedrock of the tank. I have often marvelled at some of the minimalist aquascapes. Of course being old I am somewhat set in my ways and although I have long abandoned the ominous rock wall scape my tank would still be considered heavy on its use of rock.

I was encouraged to read that although not all live rock is equal, all my rock is 15-20 years old and is full of life. I have counted on it for its biofiltering capacity all these years and have not been disappointed.

Scrubber_steve 03/09/2020 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlangel (Post 25656206)
I was encouraged to read that although not all live rock is equal, all my rock is 15-20 years old and is full of life. I have counted on it for its biofiltering capacity all these years and have not been disappointed.

That's Gold, literally. You could sell your rock for a small fortune.
My rock was fresh from the GBR. BEEN maturing in my present tank since 2011. I could use it to start a new tank anytime,,, so much better than dry rock that is so commonly used now days. In fact I'm not sure I could still get real, fresh live rock at any of the LFS any longer, which is a bit sad.

vlangel 03/09/2020 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrubber_steve (Post 25656298)
That's Gold, literally. You could sell your rock for a small fortune.
My rock was fresh from the GBR. BEEN maturing in my present tank since 2011. I could use it to start a new tank anytime,,, so much better than dry rock that is so commonly used now days. In fact I'm not sure I could still get real, fresh live rock at any of the LFS any longer, which is a bit sad.

Yes, that is sad about real live rock not being as available. We hobbyist are partly to blame because lately the trend has been to start a new tank with dry rock. Everyone seems to be afraid of hitchhikers. I never found that to be a problem and the hitchhiker I worried about more often came on coral frags.

Anyway here is a video I made last night of my 56 gallon display, the 30 gallon macro (and hopefully seagrass) fuge and 20 gallon long sump. The fuge and the sump are in my basement in what was formerly a well room so they are quite utilitarian and not very pretty. They do the trick however and I even showed my diy hang on overflow which is working well.

https://youtu.be/b9rLQ7_YSFc

I hope to add about 6 more fish to the display. I currently have 10: 2 pajama cardinals, 2 green gobies, 2 barnacle blennies, an orange spot blenny, a linear blend, a yellow head fang blend and a blue dartfish. I would like to get a McCosker's "wrasse," a royal gramma, 2 fjrefish gobies, a yellow watchman goby and a small ocellaris clownfish. That should add more activity to the tank since so many of the fish I have now are more secretive. I chose colorful fish to add more interest too. The plan is buy them all at once, QT them for a week or so and then add them to the display all at once. I have had good luck adding multiple fish to an established tank to spread out bullying. The fish I have currently are not aggressive species which should also help. All the rockwork and hiding places should help too. So that is the plan.

Scrubber_steve 03/09/2020 04:54 AM

Like your tank....

Love the music. :dance:

vlangel 03/09/2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrubber_steve (Post 25656301)
Like your tank....

Love the music. :dance:

Thank you although I did not even listen to the music first. I just matched a music choice offered by YouTube that was about the same length as my video. LOL


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