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[WaterKeeper]

Hey FragStealer

To Reef Central

No sense in stealing frags if the tank crashes. Maybe we can help prevent that.

[FragStealerOK]

Touch'e

[eddiekern]

Hello everyone, I'm not really new to the forum, Ive just been away for a couple of years. However I still haven't set anything up yet. I'm looking for some mentoring in the reef keeping hobby. I know in order to get to a good start I'll need a lot of advise, and most importantly ... I'll actually have to listen to it.

I'm a n00b, but I'm doing my best not to be a stupid n00b, god knows there are plenty of those to go around.

To give you an idea where I want to go w/ this ....

I bought a 37G tall tank w/ a stand a few years back ... so far thats all I got. What I eventually want to have .... I'm shooting for a good solid lower-maintanance system. I'm a student, so naturally money is an issue. I'm willing to be patient and do things right from the beginning.

For fish and such I would like: 1 Pair maroon clowns, 1 mandarin goby, some sand critters, and a small tang, or similar scavenger. I would like a fu manchu lionfish, but I fear the maroons would beat the **** out of it, so thats a hope, but I do understand that realistically it probably won't happen unless somehow I miraculously get a semi dosile set of maroons. I would like a rose anemone, some polyps, mushrooms, white xenia, and other softies. Since the tank is so tall (24") I'm going to load it w/ live rock so that the anemone and other inverts can be closer or further to the light.

For eqp I'm thinking of an ASM G1 skimmer, and a custom sump w/ refugium. The cabinet stand isn't very big so I'll have to go custom to get a skimmer, sump, and refugium down there. I would like a 250W 15K halide w 2x65w atinic PC's.

[eddiekern]

Thanks everyone for being good sports for me. I look forward to getting to know you guys a little better!

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by eddiekern
Hello everyone, I'm not really new to the forum, Ive just been away for a couple of years. However I still haven't set anything up yet. I'm looking for some mentoring in the reef keeping hobby. I know in order to get to a good start I'll need a lot of advise, and most importantly ... I'll actually have to listen to it.

I'm a n00b, but I'm doing my best not to be a stupid n00b, god knows there are plenty of those to go around.

To give you an idea where I want to go w/ this ....

I bought a 37G tall tank w/ a stand a few years back ... so far thats all I got. What I eventually want to have .... I'm shooting for a good solid lower-maintanance system. I'm a student, so naturally money is an issue. I'm willing to be patient and do things right from the beginning.

For fish and such I would like: 1 Pair maroon clowns, 1 mandarin goby, some sand critters, and a small tang, or similar scavenger. I would like a fu manchu lionfish, but I fear the maroons would beat the **** out of it, so thats a hope, but I do understand that realistically it probably won't happen unless somehow I miraculously get a semi dosile set of maroons. I would like a rose anemone, some polyps, mushrooms, white xenia, and other softies. Since the tank is so tall (24") I'm going to load it w/ live rock so that the anemone and other inverts can be closer or further to the light.

For eqp I'm thinking of an ASM G1 skimmer, and a custom sump w/ refugium. The cabinet stand isn't very big so I'll have to go custom to get a skimmer, sump, and refugium down there. I would like a 250W 15K halide w 2x65w atinic PC's.

IMO have your refugium established at least 6 months before adding a mandarine.
I would rethink the idea of a small tang(which is still going to be 7 inches or so). Esp with being a high tank--it is not enough space for it as and adult.

[eddiekern]

That sounds like solid advise, I figure I'll have to have my tank established for a while before the pods for the mandarin are in large enough supply. I was kinda hoping for a tang (more or less hoping that dwarf tangs existed), but your right about the tank not being big enough. What is a good fish for algae control? I also forgot to list a few fish that would be possibilities I would dig a flame hawk, and a lawnmower blenny. This tank will be a pretty slow process, it will probably be 3-4 months before it is even ready for water, then another couple of months before I can cure the rock and sand. Then about another month before I introduce fish (for the saftey of the fish AND my wallet). I would introduce the easy fish first, then after about 4-5 months (or maybe longer depending on how well I do w/ the water chemistry) before I get the anemone, then about another month before I get the clowns. I'll heed your advise and introduce the mandarin last.

Things are still in the planning phase, but I do intend to take it slow.

Thanks for the input.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by eddiekern
That sounds like solid advise, I figure I'll have to have my tank established for a while before the pods for the mandarin are in large enough supply. I was kinda hoping for a tang (more or less hoping that dwarf tangs existed), but your right about the tank not being big enough. What is a good fish for algae control? I also forgot to list a few fish that would be possibilities I would dig a flame hawk, and a lawnmower blenny. This tank will be a pretty slow process, it will probably be 3-4 months before it is even ready for water, then another couple of months before I can cure the rock and sand. Then about another month before I introduce fish (for the saftey of the fish AND my wallet). I would introduce the easy fish first, then after about 4-5 months (or maybe longer depending on how well I do w/ the water chemistry) before I get the anemone, then about another month before I get the clowns. I'll heed your advise and introduce the mandarin last.

Things are still in the planning phase, but I do intend to take it slow.

Thanks for the input.

I am not a fan of adding a particular species to a tank to clear up and algae or other problem. Quite often it does not do what is intended for it to do and or does it so well that it runs out of the food it is consuming and starves.

Another generally accepted approach on here is to deal with algae as a phosphate and nitrate problem---curb these and the algae has no food and dies off.

I believe this is a newly cycling tank so I would not worry about algae blooms right now unless till your live rock is fully curred.

However as time goes on and you still have an algae problem then here are some tips with dealing with it
From a nitrate and phosphate reducing perspective

Capn's collection of shock and awe against algae

Most of the time algae is the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Algae needs three things for the process of photosythesis to occur--carbon dioxide, light and food. If we could completely remove one of these elements it would not be able to survive.
Unfortunately in our reef tanks it is difficult to remove light and carbon dioxide completely but we can sereverly limit its food, mainly nitrates and phosphates.

If you have an algae problem then it should be approached in a way that limits the nitrates and phosphates in your water column

This is a combination of steps and practises rather then one magic bullet that will kill off all the algae in your tank.

Here is a list of practises that have been mentioned through a great number of posts that I have been proactive in and hopefully if they are together they might help

1. Feeding techniques----always feed less at one time but feed more often if the species of fish requires it. My fish always look hungry and so does my dog--they learn how to scam us humans very quickly.
Rinse off frozen prepared foods like brine shrimp and mysis shrimp. Quite often they contain phosphates and nitrates from die off in their holding tanks.

2. Flow rates and directions of flow can make a big difference
A rate that is quoted here quite often is that you should have between 20-40 times your tank volume in gph if your tank is mostly lps and even greater if mainly sps corals. There are still some expections with lps corals--you need to be on top of the husbandry requirements for each coral you have and place them accordingly.

Organic laden water slowly rises from the bottom of the tank to the top where it is skimmed off by various methods such as an overflow. Skimmed water is usually sent back to lower levels of the tank from the skimmer or sump via various ways such as loc lines.

In practical words this means that in the tank your flow should be directed to always enhance the above natural flow in the tank.
It should for a circle or semi circle and be pushed down, across the substrate up to the surface--across the surface--churning it up and towards the overflow

3.flow rates in the sump
The perfered answer for this question is between 5-10 times the total volume of your water column.
More importantly it should match the flow rate of your skimmer.
Otherwise unskimmed organic laden water is returned to the lower levels of the tank where it has to slowly make its way to the top like I desribed in the above flow senerio. This gives algae a second chance to have another lunch
This is also where flow rates and directions in the tank also help in this particular situation by getting the water back up to the top and out the overflow faster again.

Flow rates both in the sump and the tank are very important in the filtering process

4.Method of cleaning or tank maintenance
water changes---Randy has written in one of his articles that the ideal water change to remove nitrates is 30 per cent once of month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
other reefers have stated that immediate or every two week 20 percent water changes will reduce phosphates and ammonia quickly.cleaning the rockwork and substrate--once a week take a turkey baster and lightly baste the rock and substrate with it. this will get dissolved organics, phosphates and nitrates back into the water column where they can be filtered off instead of collecting and adding to the algae smorgasboard. Once again flow is very important in this also.

change your protein skimmer cup every other day

if running a filter sock change it everyother day---soak it in bleach and run it through a wash cycle with no soap. Let them dry in the air and the clorine will evaporate

5. tweaking equipment. Try not to run bioballs in filters. Replace them and all filter media with nothing!
The best use of a canister filter is to run straight carbon in it.

take skimmer pumps apart once a month and clean out the air venturis--make sure you have lots of air being combined to give a good foam column. This helps reduce organics but it also helps displace carbon dioxide with oxygen and keep your pH stable.

Once you have your levels of phosphates and nitrates in check then you may want to consider

1. running carbon and phospban in phosban reactors. the advantage to these is the water is forced through the entire media and can't take the easy way around the outside as when the media is put in a bag. Carbon can adsorb some phosphates and nitrates and the carbon is used by active bacteria in the tank

2. setting up a refugium with chaeto algae. You will need a good size refugium 20-30 gals and about 2-3 months of intensive cheato grow for it to make a noticeble difference on phosphates and nitrates. and the other advantage of a refugium is you get a larger and more variety of copopods, other inverts and good bacteria for the water column
There are many examples on this thread:
Refugiums the good bad and the ugly
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1349443

3. finding critters that eat algae. I leave this till the last because it is a problematic solution to algae. the critters don't always do what they are suppose to do. Putting some inverts in to eat a particular algae is great at the start but what do they feed on after they have eaten their specific food source.4. another method that is cropping up alot more now is the use of magnesium. Magnesium should be at 1300ppm in a reef tank to support a level over 400ppm of calcium. some reefers have reported great success with cranking the level of magnesium to 1600 pppm for two weeks. the aglae dies off and none have reported any death to corals, inverts or fish.
This is discussed in detail on this thread:
A solution to Bryopsis
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...hreadid=1113109

Excellent threads on fighting alagePhosphate starvation
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1383158

should I add a phosphate reactor
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...ghlight=phosban

how to remove phosphates
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...ghlight=phosban

Related reading(thanks to Highlandreefer for compiling them)

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

The Complete Nitrogen Cycle
http://web.archive.org/web/200305101...&RecordNo=3090

Protein Skimming: How It Works
http://web.archive.org/web/200103090...skimmers2.html

Phosphorus: Algae's Best Friend
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2002/chem.htm

from this blog:
http://www.reefcentral.com/wp/?p=287

[Michael]

great post capn, very informative

[TheEvilMonkey]

Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself. My name is Aaron and I am relatively new to the world of reef keeping. I have a 24 gallon JBJ Nano cube that has been up and running for a week. So far so good!

I was hoping that i could get some suggestions for good, reputable websites to buy coral from?

Also was hoping for a little help on a noob question. I bought IC-Gel today so i can glue some frags in place. Can it be applied underwater? or do i need to place the glue out of the water and then put it in? And if there are any warnings or suggestions for glue application those are welcome too!

Thanks, this is a great website!

[Aquarist007]

To Reef Central

IC gel is fine to use:

http://www.houseofhobbies.com/bsiicincypa7.html

[eddiekern]

Thanks capn,

That looks like some great reading, the kind of stuff I like to get me where I need to be to set up my tank. I have a packed weekend, so I'll read them early next week and see what I can learn from them. Thanks again for the awesome info, should keep me busy for a few days.

[JLwaves]

Hey there!

My name is Justin, and my friends call me JL. I'm a 24 year married lad from the Bay Area working a law firm, getting my start in law school very shortly. Love fish, love tanks, but I confess I am new. I helped build a 120-gal saltwater tank before and maintain, so while i'm not a stranger to the game I confess the only tank I have now is a 40-gallon terrarium for my bearded dragon :]

Look very much forward to learning a lot from any and everyone.

[Aquarist007]

To Reef Central

your background setting up the 120 will be useful on here.

Besides the water keeper is always interested in future lawyers

[WaterKeeper]

We've had our fill of lawyers here!

Hi Justin

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Whoops, simultaneous post but the Capn has got it wrong.

[Roc20lnanoreef]

Hi all im new here.
I have had a 20L mixed reef tank up for 4-5 months now with a 10g sump bak pak skimmer 2 t5ho coralife lights and odds n ends

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Roc20lnanoreef
Hi all im new here.
I have had a 20L mixed reef tank up for 4-5 months now with a 10g sump bak pak skimmer 2 t5ho coralife lights and odds n ends

Can you post some pictures of it?


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[Mac805]

Wats up everyone! my names Michael from California..ive had a 30 gal sw tank for about 4-5 months and im in the process of switching everything to a 40 gal tank.

[Michael]

hey michael, how you doing, glad to see you, any pics of the 30 gal?


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[reefdale]

Hi All,

Trying a marine tank after a failed attempt 25 years ago. Wow the technology has advanced! I have atarted a 14 biocube and am having some success after only a couple of months. Alot of algie outbreaks though, cant seem to get a hold of the problem. Would like to protein skim but not much room oin the fuge. Anyone have any ideas?

[reefdale]

Hi All,

Trying a marine tank after a failed attempt 25 years ago. Wow the technology has advanced! I have atarted a 14 biocube and am having some success after only a couple of months. Alot of algie outbreaks though, cant seem to get a hold of the problem. Would like to protein skim but not much room oin the fuge. Anyone have any ideas?

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by reefdale
Hi All,

Trying a marine tank after a failed attempt 25 years ago. Wow the technology has advanced! I have atarted a 14 biocube and am having some success after only a couple of months. Alot of algie outbreaks though, cant seem to get a hold of the problem. Would like to protein skim but not much room oin the fuge. Anyone have any ideas?

To Reef Central

algae is usually the sign of high nitrates and phosphates?

how often are you changing the water in your biocube and are you using ro/di water

what fish do you have in the cube--you might be feeding too much

[reefdale]

Thanks Cap,

I have a chromis and a cleaner shrimp and 10 snails been doing a 10% water change every two weeks. Only had fish for 2 weeks so just started feeding. Lights are on alot though, could be an issue?

[reefdale]

by the way, using distilled water

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by reefdale
Thanks Cap,

I have a chromis and a cleaner shrimp and 10 snails been doing a 10% water change every two weeks. Only had fish for 2 weeks so just started feeding. Lights are on alot though, could be an issue?

Lights are not or could be minimally an issue
I think you need need to do a major clean up of nitrates and phosphates.

as a suggestion do a 30 per cent water change now and repeat 30 percent each week for the next two weeks.
Prior to your water change take a turkey baster and lightly baste the surface of the substrate and the reef rock.

I also suggest that you do weekly water changes with a 14gal--two weeks gives time for nitrates and phosphates to build up and be consumed by algae.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by reefdale
by the way, using distilled water

that's okay but as a comparison
distilled water has on average about 90 % of dissolved substances removed

ro water has 95% of tds removed

and ro/di has 100 % of tds removed.

BTW
how much live rock do you have in the 14gal biocube?