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#51 | |
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You are trying to find the sweet spot where you generate the stinkiest skimmate possible while also keeping it consistent. These skimmers will generate some of the most foul smelling skimmate that I have seen with any skimmer I have ever used. It's the ability to really fine tune these that makes them really great. I've said it before and I will say it again, don't be afraid to play with it a bit more to find that sweet spot for your tank. You are close but that doesn't mean it can't get better. Play with the pump speed a bit and use the water level to compensate for the pump speed adjustments. You will know if your water level is right by the skimmate production being consistent and you will know if the pump speed is ideal by the stench of the skimmate coupled with the production. Really watery skimmate will won't smell as bad as drier skim but consistency is what you are after so you need to find that balance and you are close.
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#52 |
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Gotcha. Thanks! Can you explain to me what lowering the skimmer into deeper water will do or is it not really needed with the addition of more fish. It is amazing to know that 20 fish in my tank is a light load for this skimmer and that 30 is moderate.
![]() I dropped it to 26 and shut the wedge a bit. I'll wait an hour or so and tinker with it again. In used to the beckett where you let it set for hours/day between adjustments. Corey |
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#53 | |
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As for your nitrate issue, I suspect that is the result of a couple things. First, skimmers remove dissolved solids. They don't really remove nutrients although these solids eventually will break down and contribute to nutrients. The big factor in nutrient reduction like nitrates is bacteria. In the case of the natural approach to bacterial reduction in our tanks, live rock plays a big role in that because it provides the surface space for the bacteria to congregate. This is one of the benefits of deep sand beds as they provide additional surface space for denitrifying bacteria much the same way live rock does. Some people use fake rock for their aquascapes but fake rock isn't as porous and doesn't offer the same surface space within the rock like real live rock does. Often the tanks that have high levels of nitrates don't have a lot of live rock or at least enough live rock for the load. The other factor is waste accumulation in the substrate. Having waste break down in the sand and not vacuuming with regularity is a recipe for high nitrates. This is where lots of flow can help so that waste is sent over the overflow so it can be skimmed out and or filtered out via socks. Refugiums and turf scrubbers help consume nutrients from the tank but they don't remove dissolved solids so you still end up with particles in the water and detritus that the skimmer would otherwise remove. Cabron dosing generates bacteria that consumes nitrate causing nutrients but it is a crutch or band aid in my opinion. At the end of the day, the skimmer is part of a complex solution. The skimmer removes solids that become nutrients. The skimmer adds dissolved o2 to the system. The combination of those two factors increase ORP. The skimmer is also an important part of the gas exchange process that removes nitrogen from our water but it's not the end all be all when it comes to nitrate issues. Its only one part of the solution. In my tank, I don't have detectable nitrates despite having a pretty good load. I attribute that to a lot of live rock. I have somewhere between 700 and 1000 pounds of it. I also run a 30"x36" deep sand bed in my refugium that has a combination of mud, sand a live rock rubble. I also run two refugiums. I have a high amount of flow that is well planned out to insure that stuff doesn't settle on the bottom and I use filter socks to catch the solids that pass into the sump. Lastly, my tank has been up for around 18 years and is very well established. I have a bacterial bed that can keep up with anything I throw at it. As for 20 fish being a low load vs 30 being a moderate load.. Load is relative to waste from the fish and feeding. You can have 30 small fish in the tank and have that be a small load. Size of the fish and how you feed is where dissolved solids (DOC's) are generated. The amount of waste that skimmer produces consistently is the best sign of your load. This assuming that the skimmer is tuned well.
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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#54 |
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I have had to cut back seriously on my feedings for my fish. Some have actually lost weight. But my nutrient level is absurd. I didn't skim for over a year. Not 2ounces. I have a fair amount of rock but limited sump space for more. My tank is in the living room as is my sump....of my apartment.
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#55 |
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I have a double cone 250 with rd3 pump. Running at 40watts in 9.5" of water. Wedge pipe is 80-90% closed. The water line is half way up the cup, I'm not getting real good skim mate. I've had the skimmer running for 3 weeks since I last cleaned it and only able to get 3/4" of skim.
My tank is a 250 with 80 gallon sump. I would say I have a high bio load with 20 fish and 7 of them being tangs raning from med to large size. What am I doing wrong? I see people filling their cups up within a week or so. I can go months without filling my cup. I bought the avast neck cleaning hoping that would improve skim mate but nada. Please help me get the most out of my skimmer, tank has been up and running for two years. |
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#56 |
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Maybe skimmer is too big. I debated on that skimmer and advised to get the 200. No need to oversize these skimmers. Same size tank and 30 fish. Tangs, angels some the size of my hand. I'm sure scott will chime in but I'll take a shoot....
Lower the skimmer into deeper water. Maybe drop it an inch or 1/2. Lower the speed to 35. That will allow for longer contact time in the chamber. Corey |
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#57 | |
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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#58 | |
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![]() Good advice actually.. The force is strong with you. If he lowered it down to 35 watts, 1/2" deeper would be about spot on although that is really kind of deeper than it should need to be with a good load.. And given his load, the normal sweet spot of 37 watts may not be low enough.. Additional contact time at 35 watts wouldn't necessarily hurt.. I'd start at 37 watts and 1/4" deeper at this point though and then go from there..
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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#59 |
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I can help others just not myself!!!!
![]() I read these threads sometimes 2-3 times each post to learn so I can trouble shoot mine and help others maybe down the road. I have learned a lot from your posts scott! Hired?!!! How did you know I was job searching???? ![]() Corey |
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#60 |
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Agreed, I learned a lot too thanks to Scott. I think I mastered my DC180, now I am getting daily consistency and most important to me....predictability when making fine tuning changes. I can't say enough praise about RE skimmers and products.
My only complaint is the control box attached to the pump in the older RD3's. I wish RE offered some retrofit kit for users that want to (need to) detach the pump for cleaning, maintenance etc. without voiding the warranty. I could easily do it myself, but I know that if I cut the control cable and installed a connector I would most certainly void the warranty. Anyway, not the end of the world. It's just a nice convenience to have ![]() |
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#61 |
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My biggest complaint is I don't have a RE Dreambox.
![]() ![]() This is my first RE product and thus far I am impressed with all facets of the product. Corey |
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#62 | ||
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I hear you on the fixed connection concern. There is a good reason behind the fixed connection though. Connecting the pump to the controller while the controller has power to it can result in a damaged pump or damaged controller. As such, this was done as a safety precaution because inevitably, some people would connect the pumps to a powered controller resulting in failures of controllers or pumps. This would obviously impact warranty rates so fixed wiring was used to prevent accidental induced failures. The RD3 230 includes a removable pump connection which should trickle down to other RD3 models in the future but there is no timeline on that. I also don't know what if any changes are being made to the controller circuitry to prevent failures as a result of hot plugging the pump into the controller.
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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#63 | |
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#64 |
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Hi guys
Skimmer has been set and ran now for 4/5days. Its running at 30w and pipe open 4 lines. I have video showing the skimmer so far. If you guys could watch and let me know your opinion. Heres a link. https://youtu.be/9MOODPzhKO0 Thanks |
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#65 | |
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Give it a few more days as it's not yet completely broken in. Once it's broken in, you could try slowing the pump down a bit in 1 watt increments. That will increase the contact time which will darken the skimmate up. It will also slow the skim production down. If you do slow the pump down, drain the collection cup so you can see the results. You will have to find a balance between darker skimmate and consistency. Should you decide to slow the pump down, give it several hours to settle in or 24 hours to see what it produces. You will likely need to close the wedge pipe a bit to maintain consistency.
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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#66 | |
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Pump Increase watts/percentage = ??? Decrease watts/percentage = ??? Body (Wedge pipe) open = ??? close = ??? Is the wedge pipe just to raise the water level of the skimmer? How would I decide between increasing/decreasing the wattage vs. opening/closing the wedge pipe? How do I "wet skim"? (settings, etc.) How do I "dry skim"? |
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#67 | |
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Pump Increase watts/percentage = increases water and air flow into the skimmer. This decreases contact time and increases bubble size. Increasing the pump speed will also raise the water level inside the skimmer. Decrease watts/percentage = Increases contact time by decreasing flow through the skimmer and also decreases bubble size. Decreasing the pump speed will also decrease the water level inside the skimmer. Increased contact time coupled with decreased bubble size results in more efficient DOC removal. There is a point of deminishing return with this and every model skimmer is different however each sized skimmer has it's sweet spot range in terms of pump speed. 250 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 36 and 38 watts. 200 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 27 & 30 watts. 180 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 22 & 24 watts. Much of that depends on the amount of DOC's. Less DOC's typically require higher water levels inside the skimmer to keep the foam head up higher in the neck in order to keep the skimmer producing consistently. Body (Wedge pipe) open = reduces water level inside the skimmer lowering the foam head. close = increases water level inside the skimmer by restricting it's flow out of the skimmer and raises the foam head. I prefer to use sump level to fine tune the water level as much as possible so that the point of where the bubbles transition to slower moving foam is at the base of neck with the wedge pipe wide open. Then do the real fine tuning with the wedge pipe so that I only have to close the wedge pipe slightly. To wet skim, first find the best pump speed to create the most solid foam head possible. The raise the water level inside the skimmer either via the sump level or by closing the wedge pipe to lighten the skimmate color. The higher the level in the neck where bubbles transition to foam, the wetter the skim. By raising the level, you are essentially thinning the skimmate. Wetter skim results in increased skimmate production. To dry skim, find the best pump level to get the most solid foam head and lower the level inside the skimmer to darken the skimmate. The lower the level where bubbles transition to foam in the neck, the drier/darker/thicker the skim. It really is a visual thing as far as what you see in the collection cup. These skimmers are very efficient in the speed at which they remove solids from the water. As such, the DOC's are removed, adjustments may need to be made to compensate for the reduced DOC's. That typically would mean raising the level inside the skimmer slightly s that the point that the bubbles change to foam are higher up in the neck. This adjustment typically requires a very slight adjustment to the wedge pipe by closing it ever so slightly. Drier skim results in decreased skimmate production. The amount of DOC's in the water has a direct impact on ideal settings. The lighter the load in relation to the skimmer size, the more difficult it is to tune a skimmer dry and keep it consistent. In the absence of enough DOC's for the size skimmer, you end up with bubbles that tend to burst faster at the surface instead of generating thick foam. This is because the DOC's provide the proteins necessary to make the bubbles stick together to form consistent foam. The larger the skimmer, the larger the neck diameter and the more DOC's needed to fill that neck with foam. This is one reason why sizing one of these skimmer correctly is important. It allows you to have more control over the skimmer performance and allows it to produce consistently both wet and dry. If the skimmer is oversized or if there aren't much in the way of DOC's for the size skimmer, consistently maintaining a good foam head is difficult. This necessitates the need to wet skim in order to maintain consistency.
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 Last edited by slief; 01/08/2016 at 02:11 PM. |
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#68 |
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Join Date: May 2010
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This thread is very informative. Thank you.
So I am running my bk mini 160 and have the wedge 75% closed. Running at 9" water level. So you suggest I run skimmer deeper? from what I am gathering is that I have low docs. |
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#69 | |
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With the Mini on a relatively light load, I would normally start with the wedge pipe wide open and use the sump level to get the water level up to the middle to higher end of the range below. With a heavier load, I would adjust the sump level to the lower end of the range in the photo below. Then use the wedge to fine tune so you aren't having to close it so much. In a very lightly stocked tank or in the case where this skimmer is oversized for the load, your water level in the sump will typically be higher than the "optimal range" which is 7.75" to 8.50". In your case given that you are already at 9" I think it's a safe assumption that the amount of dissolved organics in your system is on the low side for that skimmer. As such, assuming your skimmer is broken in and you like the way it's perfoming, you could note where the water level (transition from water to bubbles) inside the skimmer is now. Open the wedge pipe all the way and raise the water level of the sump enough to get the transition point and 1/4" below where you have it now. Then close the wedge pipe to adjust it from there back to the bubble level you have it at now. That should only require you to close your wedge pipe around 1/4 of the way. Keep in mind that when you open the wedge pipe up to make this adjustment, it's going to impact/disrupt the skimmers bubble output for a little while. As such, raise the sump level 1/4" at a time and give the skimmer an hour or two to settle back down before making another adjustment. You won't want to overshoot the depth in your sump only to have the skimmer overflow. My guess is that you will end up around 9.5"-9.75" given your wedge pipe is a 75% closed. Having said that, these adjustments aren't going to necessarily make that skimmer perform much better unless you are seeing surging (water going up and down in the skimmer body). As such, you could also leave it alone but I would at least raise the level a little bit in the sump so your wedge isn't so closed. For reference, here is the range that you would normally target for the transition from water to bubbles in the mini skimmer. Heavier load would require a lower transition than a lighter load. The key for you is finding a water level that results in the most consistent skimmate production where it's not overflowing and it's still producing reasonably dark skimmate. ![]()
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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#70 |
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Thanks for the informative reply.
You are correct, skimmer runs nicely for a few days and then goes out of wack. Not very consistent. And now I am aware it has to do with the low docs. im goin to do like you stated and see how deep it needs to be in order to run wedge open. I feel like the inconsistency has to do with the wedge being so closed if that makes sense |
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#71 | |
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In your case, I suspect what you are seeing is the result of the skimmer driving the dissolved organics out of the system. Once that happens, the skimmer can no longer make a good foam head so it will idle along for several days (not producing any skimmate) until the DOC's build back up. Once they build up enough, the skimmer will start producing a good foam head again and generate skimmate for a couple days or more until it reduces the DOC's. Then the cycle repeats. If you have the skimmer set too wet, it will want to inadvertently overflow. There is however a fine line where you should be able to adjust it wet enough that it will produce wet skimmate reasonably consistently. You just have to adjust the internal water level high enough in the skimmer to get it to produce consistently but low enough that it doesn't overflow if you look at it wrong. This requires very subtle fine adjustments of the wedge pipe and getting the sump level in the right ball park first will go a long way in terms of being able to take advantage of the fine adjustments the wedge pipe offers. It's also very critical that you run an ATO to maintain a consistent sump level otherwise your skimmer will never be consistent. It will overflow if you add too much water and not produce with the slightest bit of evaporation. Same goes with water changes. Add too much new water and your skimmer may overflow. Too little water and your skimmers internal level will drop.
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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#72 |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!
After I change my new sump, I got to start all over again with skimmer since I have washed thoroughly the whole skimmer before putting it back on, after a week , here is the video;
The skim mate qty collected after 5 days of running the skimmer; ![]() I am also wondering why this silicon tubing are attached to the red pipe that is restricting me to move my pumps on a different position and also my adjustment on the water level inside the skimmer's body ? ![]() Cheers, MD
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MD I love Taiwan, a free democratic independent country. Current Tank Info: 90cmx60cmx60cm (420 liters total volume), 12mm thick tampered glass aquariums , Eheim compact +5000, Jns SK2 protein skimmer, T5 x 4 x39 watt (2 blue , 2 white), MP40WES, SEIO 1000, TLF 150 *2 + 550 *1 |
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#73 | |
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 Last edited by slief; 01/08/2016 at 11:28 PM. |
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#74 |
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Hi Scott, I love this skimmer it let me feed more but I wonder if I keep doing more feeding will it lead to my po4 goes way up again?
For the Venturi tube, you mean I have to removed the red color airline pipe and then rotate the red wedge pipe 180 degree as shown in the photos ? My wedge is wide open as of the moment .
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MD I love Taiwan, a free democratic independent country. Current Tank Info: 90cmx60cmx60cm (420 liters total volume), 12mm thick tampered glass aquariums , Eheim compact +5000, Jns SK2 protein skimmer, T5 x 4 x39 watt (2 blue , 2 white), MP40WES, SEIO 1000, TLF 150 *2 + 550 *1 |
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#75 | |
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A a side not, disregard rotating the wedge pipe 180*. With the wedge pipe wide open, I don't think that will work for you. That said, I see no issue with the way your Venturi line is routed anyway so I would just leave it alone.
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Director Customer Support Royal Exclusiv USA For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745 Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476 |
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