Clownfish Abuse help!

[moonphaz]

I purchased 4 very young small clownfish about a month and a half ago. In the last few weeks one of them has grown about double the size of the other three. He has been bullying one of the smallest ones and I found him/her in a corner all pale, fins chewed up. I put her in a mesh breeding cube until she recovered and then put her back in with the others this week. All was well the first few days but yesterday she is pale and being chased constantly again. I got the bully and put him in the mesh this time but now one of the other 3 are chasing him/her. Is this normal behavior & she will somehow make it or something else? I don't want to disrupt the natural order of things but I also cannot stand back and let them die.

So frustrating! We got 4 young ones so they could pair up and would hopefully not be aggressive if they grew up together. Clearly that didn't work.

FYI - 30 gallon tank. Perimeters are all good, checked at lfs regularly & with my own strips. I have soft corals a Pajama & Cardinal fish and a cleaner shrimp, brittlestar, emerald crab & snails. The tank is over a year old, well established and has been doing great for the entire year.

[j.falk]

Your tank is too small to have multiple pairs of clowns in it.

The biggest clownfish in your tank is not a male. It is the dominant female and all the rest are subordinate males. Figure out which two are the dominant pair and get rid of the other 2 before they get killed because that is exactly what will happen.

https://www.bluezooaquatics.com/resources.asp?show=417

[moonphaz]

Wow... we got them at the recommendation of our long-time LFS. They said it would be fine so this is surprising to hear.

[hkgar]

You didn't hear the rest of the statement for your LFS. "It will be fine...to our bottom line to sell 4 fish rather than 2"

[Uncle99]

A female has taken exception to one, quite Normal, being kicked out.
Return if possible, constant harassment can lead to stress and disease taking hold,

[moonphaz]

Originally Posted by hkgar

You didn't hear the rest of the statement for your LFS. "It will be fine...to our bottom line to sell 4 fish rather than 2"

I would believe that, except we have a long history and they are always charging us less or giving us things for free like snails etc. In fact they gave us the 4 clowns for the price of 3 so I do not agree they were trying to cheat us in that way. They have never done anything that makes me believe that and have bent over backwards to be super fair to us.

[moonphaz]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

A female has taken exception to one, quite Normal, being kicked out.
Return if possible, constant harassment can lead to stress and disease taking hold,

I can return her easily - they are great at taking back fish when there is any issue with them. This makes much more sense. Thank you.

[ThRoewer]

In my experience you may add juveniles to an established adult pair, but starting out with a small group of juveniles will generally lead to the loss of the weaker ones until only a pair is left.

I have 4 Darwin "ocellaris" together in a 40 gallon tank and they get along fairly well, especially after I added a pair of Dascyllus damsels to their tank.
I started out with an adult, fully grown pair and 4 juveniles. At first they got along fairly well but after a few weeks one of the juveniles started bullying the other 3 juveniles while at the same time making nice with the male of the pair. He basically became the "enforcer" of the pair while they didn't really get involved much in the in the infighting among the juveniles. After a while the juveniles had developed a hacking order. The weakest was hardly allowed to come out to eat and ultimately got killed by the bully who had become excessively viciuos. When he started to take out the one that was now the weakest I removed him. With the bully gone the larger of the two remaining juveniles was now the one allowed with the pair. But he was far less viciuos than his predecessor and addition of the Dascyllus kept them more confined to their anemones.

In the wild it is quite similar and the smallest are under the highest pressure. What keeps them together there is that they are surrounded by predators and therefore can't venture far from their anemone. The presence of predators who want to eat the anemone also makes having more "fighters" to defend the home a necessity.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by moonphaz

I would believe that, except we have a long history and they are always charging us less or giving us things for free like snails etc. In fact they gave us the 4 clowns for the price of 3 so I do not agree they were trying to cheat us in that way. They have never done anything that makes me believe that and have bent over backwards to be super fair to us.

Sounds like you have a great LFS. I do also. Just you do see some terrible stories about some, no doubt a minority.

[wrott]

Also, anybody who tells you that 4 clowns will be ok in a 30g has never kept clowns long term.
It's better get a female, wait a month or two then introduce a smallest undifferentiated specimen to the tank--they will pair in a couple of days.

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by hkgar

Sounds like you have a great LFS. I do also. Just you do see some terrible stories about some, no doubt a minority.

While I am polite and listen to LFS, I always ask the members for advice, if they give advice, I take it.

At many of our stores, “Jonny” ( the salt water guy) is also “jonny” ( the bird guy) and “John” ( the guy that changes your oil)

Ask a member, they are both the experts and have no other vested interest.

I struggled for so many years until I join Reef Central, their combined advice ended in this hobby becoming so much easier, and less expensive

Today I watch the LFS take a sponge out the water and into the bag it went.
Gone will be $40.

[j.falk]

Originally Posted by moonphaz

I can return her easily - they are great at taking back fish when there is any issue with them. This makes much more sense. Thank you.

Figure out which ones are the dominant pair, keep them and return the other 2.

When I pair clowns, I always buy three baby (juvenile) clowns and keep them together until the pair forms and then I return the odd one out to a LFS. I've been using this method for years and it's always worked out perfectly for me.

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by j.falk

...
When I pair clowns, I always buy three baby (juvenile) clowns and keep them together until the pair forms and then I return the odd one out to a LFS. I've been using this method for years and it's always worked out perfectly for me.

I generally spend a bit time observing the fish at the store and then pick the two that are the most likely to form a pair. This worked for me so far every time with wild anemonefish. Though sometimes, especially with hard to find species or local variants, I add a third as a reservist in case I lose one of the pair. Like in the wild, a third, if small enough, is often accepted even if chased from the anemone during the day.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk