Help diagnosing black spots on clownfish - Page 2

Laurenb17 · 01/03/2018, 12:47 PM

Alright. I looked into brook last night but still think it's most likely velvet. Both clowns are captive bred and the male has yet to show any symptoms. The female is now picking food off the bottom of the tank and is acting normal compared to her erratic behavior just before adding the copper 10 minutes ago.

JustinM · 01/03/2018, 01:00 PM

The copper itself would't make her feel better. I will kill velvet when they are dinospores, the free swimming stage. Ich/velvet, both usually start in the gills and it spreads from there.

Laurenb17 · 01/03/2018, 01:23 PM

Now that she has calmed down I can still see some white spots, but definitely less than yesterday. I thought that the white spots from ich were first seen on the fins, then spread elsewhere. I didn't see any spots on her until when she was completely covered.

Managed to get another pic of her
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WI...gnTUCmbh4mfLPg

Laurenb17 · 01/03/2018, 02:04 PM

Also, here is a pic of the color change. The black on her body is lighter than her fins, and a few days ago she was all the same shade of black. I am now slightly concerned that it may be brook because of her change in color, but still do not see any mucus.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VT...36QhnxQTjDOZAI

Laurenb17 · 01/03/2018, 02:11 PM

She seems pretty stressed. I might put the fish back in the tank and take out all inverts before treating it. I think the small qt tank size and no rock could be stressing her out

JustinM · 01/03/2018, 02:23 PM

I would just stick with what you're doing now.If it is brook, the spots will remain. As I said earlier, if it doesn't get better, I would do another acriflavine bath and we will change treatment. Metroplex is great at treating brook so it wouldn't be a bad idea to get that awhile. It is also a great med to have on hand anyways.

As for the tank, it is up to you but you don't want to stop treatment. It could also be the copper stressing them out. Have you checked the levels yet?

Laurenb17 · 01/03/2018, 03:05 PM

Alright. I'll leave them in the qt tank. The male is not stressed at all. The female has bursts of acting stressed and swimming around frantically them calms down.

I gave the female a 2 min bath in freshwater which improved her color and she is now calm.

Copper test picked up no traces of copper, so I will add more. Just wanted to start off slow as I know high levels can be deadly.

JustinM · 01/03/2018, 03:48 PM

Do not do Fw dips everyday. At most every other day.

Laurenb17 · 01/03/2018, 06:28 PM

Okay. Ammonia tests says roughly .15 ppm, but read that liquid tests can have false positives. The ammonia alert badge should get here Friday. How often do you recommend doing water changes? The tank is not cycled so I'm expecting some ammonia, and read that copper can make it even more toxic.

JustinM · 01/03/2018, 06:46 PM

Yes, you will get a false reading with an ammonia test.

Laurenb17 · 01/04/2018, 12:12 PM

She has a new dark spot on her head this morning, so I'm assuming its not a sting mark since there is no coral in the qt tank. She and the male now have white stringy poop, which I believe is caused by internal parasites and sometimes stress. Would the copper and furan 2 treat parasites if this is the case? I ordered metroplex which should be here by the end of the weekend. It's crazy that none of my lfs carry any of these medicines, especially if the illness quickly kills fish

JustinM · 01/04/2018, 12:55 PM

You will need to feed the metroplex to them. 1 scoop of metro to 1 scoop and focus to 1 cube of frozen. Feed for 10-14 days.

You will need to order seachem focus now. I'm sorry things just keep stacking up. All these meds will come in handy in the future for any more purchases so it's not a waste.

Laurenb17 · 01/04/2018, 01:07 PM

Ok, I'll order that now. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Thank you for all of your help, I truly appreciate it. If I hadn't posted on this forum I would be guessing everything on my own and most likely would've lost them both by now.

One of my concerns is overdosing all of the meds because of the small tank. Most directions give doses in larger amounts so I have to do a bit of math to scale it down to 3 gallons. I could swap them back to the 10 gallon to make treatment easier and reduce stress, but am worried that the corals and anemone won't fair to well in an uncycled tank. My shrimp are also a total pain to catch.

One pro out of this is that the clowns appear to be pairing quicker haha. They now spend a lot of time next to each other or twitching. The female was stressed in the tank until I added the male.

JustinM · 01/04/2018, 01:21 PM

Make sure to aerate the water very generously. Medications will eat up the O2. Definitely bump up the copper slower if you can, sometimes with Velvet, it is not possible.

You can dose the furan2 with copper, the only side effect might be a bacterial bloom. Harmless to fish, but will eat up O2. The metro/focus is reef safe when fed to fish so this can wait till they are back in the display but defintley needs treated. Internal parasites will kill fish.

JustinM · 01/04/2018, 01:22 PM

The twitching is the male submitting haha

Laurenb17 · 01/04/2018, 01:30 PM

Haha figured as much, although the female has also twitched once or twice.

The output for the filter creates a decent amount of surface disruption, but I also have an air pump on hand if that would be beneficial. I've heard mixed reviews about using them in saltwater though. I can slowly increase the copper.

Both are still eating which is good. I usually feed pellets daily, and frozen food a couple times a week. It usually makes a mess of my tank even with the shrimp being greedy.

carmodpg · 07/17/2018, 09:52 AM

I think you have good answers, but it could turn into velvet if things get worse. Here is a decent thread on the issues:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2663174

Laurenb17 · 07/17/2018, 10:08 AM

Luckily everything is back to normal now. I treated with therapeutic levels of copper for about 4 weeks then returned them to my main tank. One issue I had was that the quarantine tank wouldn't drop below 81 degrees. After reading that warmer temperatures help eradicate disease, I think that may have helped get them better in the limited timespan that I was able to have a quarantine tine. They are both alive and doing well

I truly appreciate all the help!

01/03/2018, 12:47 PM	#26
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Alright. I looked into brook last night but still think it's most likely velvet. Both clowns are captive bred and the male has yet to show any symptoms. The female is now picking food off the bottom of the tank and is acting normal compared to her erratic behavior just before adding the copper 10 minutes ago.

01/03/2018, 01:00 PM	#27
JustinM Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,215	The copper itself would't make her feel better. I will kill velvet when they are dinospores, the free swimming stage. Ich/velvet, both usually start in the gills and it spreads from there.

01/03/2018, 01:23 PM	#28
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Now that she has calmed down I can still see some white spots, but definitely less than yesterday. I thought that the white spots from ich were first seen on the fins, then spread elsewhere. I didn't see any spots on her until when she was completely covered. Managed to get another pic of her https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WI...gnTUCmbh4mfLPg

01/03/2018, 02:04 PM	#29
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Also, here is a pic of the color change. The black on her body is lighter than her fins, and a few days ago she was all the same shade of black. I am now slightly concerned that it may be brook because of her change in color, but still do not see any mucus. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VT...36QhnxQTjDOZAI

01/03/2018, 02:11 PM	#30
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	She seems pretty stressed. I might put the fish back in the tank and take out all inverts before treating it. I think the small qt tank size and no rock could be stressing her out

01/03/2018, 02:23 PM	#31
JustinM Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,215	I would just stick with what you're doing now.If it is brook, the spots will remain. As I said earlier, if it doesn't get better, I would do another acriflavine bath and we will change treatment. Metroplex is great at treating brook so it wouldn't be a bad idea to get that awhile. It is also a great med to have on hand anyways. As for the tank, it is up to you but you don't want to stop treatment. It could also be the copper stressing them out. Have you checked the levels yet?

01/03/2018, 03:05 PM	#32
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Alright. I'll leave them in the qt tank. The male is not stressed at all. The female has bursts of acting stressed and swimming around frantically them calms down. I gave the female a 2 min bath in freshwater which improved her color and she is now calm. Copper test picked up no traces of copper, so I will add more. Just wanted to start off slow as I know high levels can be deadly.

01/03/2018, 03:48 PM	#33
JustinM Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,215	Do not do Fw dips everyday. At most every other day.

01/03/2018, 06:28 PM	#34
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Okay. Ammonia tests says roughly .15 ppm, but read that liquid tests can have false positives. The ammonia alert badge should get here Friday. How often do you recommend doing water changes? The tank is not cycled so I'm expecting some ammonia, and read that copper can make it even more toxic.

01/03/2018, 06:46 PM	#35
JustinM Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,215	Yes, you will get a false reading with an ammonia test.

01/04/2018, 12:12 PM	#36
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	She has a new dark spot on her head this morning, so I'm assuming its not a sting mark since there is no coral in the qt tank. She and the male now have white stringy poop, which I believe is caused by internal parasites and sometimes stress. Would the copper and furan 2 treat parasites if this is the case? I ordered metroplex which should be here by the end of the weekend. It's crazy that none of my lfs carry any of these medicines, especially if the illness quickly kills fish

01/04/2018, 12:55 PM	#37
JustinM Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,215	You will need to feed the metroplex to them. 1 scoop of metro to 1 scoop and focus to 1 cube of frozen. Feed for 10-14 days. You will need to order seachem focus now. I'm sorry things just keep stacking up. All these meds will come in handy in the future for any more purchases so it's not a waste.

01/04/2018, 01:07 PM	#38
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Ok, I'll order that now. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Thank you for all of your help, I truly appreciate it. If I hadn't posted on this forum I would be guessing everything on my own and most likely would've lost them both by now. One of my concerns is overdosing all of the meds because of the small tank. Most directions give doses in larger amounts so I have to do a bit of math to scale it down to 3 gallons. I could swap them back to the 10 gallon to make treatment easier and reduce stress, but am worried that the corals and anemone won't fair to well in an uncycled tank. My shrimp are also a total pain to catch. One pro out of this is that the clowns appear to be pairing quicker haha. They now spend a lot of time next to each other or twitching. The female was stressed in the tank until I added the male.

01/04/2018, 01:21 PM	#39
JustinM Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,215	Make sure to aerate the water very generously. Medications will eat up the O2. Definitely bump up the copper slower if you can, sometimes with Velvet, it is not possible. You can dose the furan2 with copper, the only side effect might be a bacterial bloom. Harmless to fish, but will eat up O2. The metro/focus is reef safe when fed to fish so this can wait till they are back in the display but defintley needs treated. Internal parasites will kill fish.

01/04/2018, 01:22 PM	#40
JustinM Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,215	The twitching is the male submitting haha

01/04/2018, 01:30 PM	#41
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Haha figured as much, although the female has also twitched once or twice. The output for the filter creates a decent amount of surface disruption, but I also have an air pump on hand if that would be beneficial. I've heard mixed reviews about using them in saltwater though. I can slowly increase the copper. Both are still eating which is good. I usually feed pellets daily, and frozen food a couple times a week. It usually makes a mess of my tank even with the shrimp being greedy.

07/17/2018, 09:52 AM	#42
carmodpg Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 12	I think you have good answers, but it could turn into velvet if things get worse. Here is a decent thread on the issues: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2663174

07/17/2018, 10:08 AM	#43
Laurenb17 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 23	Luckily everything is back to normal now. I treated with therapeutic levels of copper for about 4 weeks then returned them to my main tank. One issue I had was that the quarantine tank wouldn't drop below 81 degrees. After reading that warmer temperatures help eradicate disease, I think that may have helped get them better in the limited timespan that I was able to have a quarantine tine. They are both alive and doing well I truly appreciate all the help!