My own AEFW (Acro Eating Flatworms) images

melev · 08/02/2006, 10:34 PM

Hey, why not? I finally got my own collection of them, so I can put some on my I.D. page.

My A. valida looked pretty bad over the past week, and I thought it was an alkalinity issue. Turns out I was wrong.

Here is is, back on June 13, looking happy:

And then again, on July 28th, super close up:

Several people informed me early this morning that they are AEFW. Not really sure, I pulled the coral out of my tank, and blasted it in a while bowl of water (.25g perhaps) with 4 drops of Lugol's Solution. Here's what I found.

Some were large, like the one above, and many were very tiny. They are virtually invisible to the naked eye when studying a coral. A few more pictures to give you some perspective.

And finally, my little coral. It was a mere twig last September, and finally it is something I can hold in my hand. The question is will it survive... I blasted it off repeatedly, and redipped it in new bowls of iodine three times. When I put it back in the tank, the flow caused many of the now-white flatworms to blow around, only to land elsewhere. Now the rest of my corals can be part of the party too.

My Copperband Butterfly ate a few.

I seriously doubt I'll treat my corals in a separate system. Humm.

Bryan89 · 08/02/2006, 10:38 PM

Marc,

I am in the same boat with the larger FW I discovered yesterday. I dipped the two worst off corals in TMPCC and it killed off all FW on the two corals. I am going to try FW Exit tomorrow, though I am not holding my breath as to its success.

Bryan

dreaminmel · 08/02/2006, 10:42 PM

Sorry to hear you've got the AEFW Marc...

Let us know how your treatment goes and please share any info you feel relevant.

melev · 08/02/2006, 10:48 PM

I don't even have a plan yet. I just placed an order with Marine Depot an hour ago. Looks like I need to add some Flatworm Exit to my order. What is the other stuff, Bryan?

GreshamH · 08/02/2006, 11:36 PM

FWE won't do much good on these Marc, at least that's what I've read. I personally haven't tried it as I simply culled my entire sps collection, well, 95% that is.

Bryan89 · 08/02/2006, 11:41 PM

TMPCC= Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. It took out all the FW from the corals, but does not kill the eggs. It also allegedly works on red bugs, but I have never had to test it (knock on wood). The TMPCC is a dip.

Also from what I read FW exit will not work, but I did read someone had sucess at 2x normal dosing levels. We'll see how it goes.

Bryan

MikeEe · 08/02/2006, 11:56 PM

Melev do you know how you got aefw? was it through a frag or a colony? or did it just show up on your coral one day without any recent additions?

sfsuphysics · 08/03/2006, 07:50 AM

now I don't have any experience with AEFW *knocks on wood*, but do they primarily exist around the base? or do they go all the way up?

If it were me I'd probably chop all the tips that still have color off Lugol dip the hell out of them, stick them in a QT tank with other tips of corals that I've culled, and hope for the best that none hitchhiked and just let them die out in the main tank.

Wiskey · 08/03/2006, 10:04 AM

Man that stinks melv,... I wish you luck. Do you think this could have been what caused your other problem not too long ago?

Whiskey

NewSchool04 · 08/03/2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeEe
Melev do you know how you got aefw? was it through a frag or a colony? or did it just show up on your coral one day without any recent additions?

I had the same question, any new additions to the tank that would have brought these in?

Travis · 08/03/2006, 12:52 PM

Sorry to hear Marc. It seems that everyone will eventually end up with these in their tanks, if they haven't yet. With that many AEFW's on that one coral alone, I think it is safe to assume that a lot of your other acros are also going to be housing them. The only way you will probably be able to erradicate these things from your tank is by treating the corals separately and leaving the tank acro-dormant for a good month.

So sorry to see the damage on what I'm guessing is your favorite coral. Those "bite marks" sure are a tell tale sign of AEFW damage.

One thing that is good is that I know we will all benefit from whatever treatment route you choose as you like to take lots of (good) pictures and thoroughly document everything. I wouldn't bother with FWE. Many have tried it at very strong doses and I don't believe it was successful long-term for any of them. Your current options are TMPCC and levamisole. There is also some sort of over-the-counter iodine dip that people in Europe are using (check dolt's thread for info on that). Be sure to take your time reading through the 3 or so big AEFW threads first and then decide which route you want to go. Each one has its own risks, advantages, and disadvantages. FWIW, I will probably continue to treat incoming corals with the treatment that worked for me, which was 60ppm levamisole for 5-7 hours. This treatment is cheap and effective, but, IME, you can expect a 20-30% loss of corals.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

clkwrk · 08/03/2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travis
It seems that everyone will eventually end up with these in their tanks, if they haven't yet.

I agree. I was searching last night and these AEFW's go back to 2001 from what I have found and they have exploded recently popping up in every corner of the world in hobbyist tanks

menard · 08/03/2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clkwrk
I agree. I was searching last night and these AEFW's go back to 2001 from what I have found and they have exploded recently popping up in every corner of the world in hobbyist tanks

Man, go back even farther, 1998 my first encounter w/ this Bastards,shipment of Tonga Acros. They go after tricolors first B4 any other acros. in the tank.

melev · 08/03/2006, 02:02 PM

My tank tends to have incoming and outgoing corals on a regular basis, for whatever reason. For example, in the past 30 days:

I took pictures of one guy's gorgeous SPS tank. In return, I got 6 frags.

A LFS contacted me to pick up corals that he was throwing out, so I could save them possibly.

A local reefer brought me a frag of his RTNing coral. It didn't survive 24 hours.

The month before:

Club frag swap - I brought home a few pieces.

A bunch of zoanthids were placed in my prop section, donated by another reefer in the area.

AEFW could have come in on any of that stuff. How long they remain dormant, nor how long it takes for them to travel to the actual coral they want to eat - no idea.

I started reading one AEFW thread where Weatherson was going to treat his tank rather than pulling out the corals, which would be my preference obviously. I only read page 1 of the 24 page thread, so I need to see how that played out.

I have a Lemon Meringue Wrasse and a Six Line Wrasse, plus the Copperband. It would be nice if these three would tagteam the worms.

raddogz · 08/03/2006, 02:40 PM

Acro-eating flatworms are becoming more and more of a common occurance - a norm rather than an odd occurance.

Our local club will be having a talk on quarentine, and the obvious pro's to this delimna.

I never quarentined, but you want to make a bet I will do so from this point forwards.

wfgworks · 08/03/2006, 03:23 PM

Melev

So what is your plan?

Is it recommended to remove the colony to keep others from getting infected?

Can someone post the main dicussion threads about AEFW?

I need to educate myself on this since I'm sure it will be my turn I'm sure knowing my luck.

melev · 08/03/2006, 03:56 PM

I'll find a few links to post in this thread to help you out.

sfsuphysics · 08/03/2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

I need to educate myself on this since I'm sure it will be my turn I'm sure knowing my luck.

As Raddogz stated, basically quarantine procedures can help you more than you know. Much like fish we have too much of a desire to toss a new aquisition into the tank. I'm sure everyone has at points (if not still) been guilty of this (me included). Its just too bad it takes a loss like this to have people wake up, sadder still when people don't wake up. Best we can hope is that those of us who read these threads smarten up and start treating/QTing everything we get before it affects us.

raddogz · 08/03/2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sfsuphysics
As Raddogz stated, basically quarantine procedures can help you more than you know. Much like fish we have too much of a desire to toss a new aquisition into the tank. I'm sure everyone has at points (if not still) been guilty of this (me included). Its just too bad it takes a loss like this to have people wake up, sadder still when people don't wake up. Best we can hope is that those of us who read these threads smarten up and start treating/QTing everything we get before it affects us.

Amen to that!

Travis · 08/03/2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by menard
They go after tricolors first B4 any other acros. in the tank.

I agree 101% on this. Tricolors (nanas, cerealis, valida, etc.) are AEFW magnets and will be the first to show signs. They are kind of a "canary" coral for the AEFW's. If you don't know if you have the AEFW's, put a tricolor in your tank and check it a month later. I bet if you had any AEFW's in the tank, there would be some on that tricolor.

Neptune777 · 08/03/2006, 05:20 PM

Melev,
I read your post....I feel your pain! After reading your post I pulled a small milli colony from my tank that didn't look too hot and guess what I found after hitting it with lugols and a TB? Grrrrrrrrrr.......

I purchased some TMPCC today and will begin treatment this weekend.....

I will be setting up a 30gal cube for quarantine, pulling all colonies and frags and doing the initial TMPCC trial. I plan on doing a treatment weekly until I feel satisfied all is OK....

melev · 08/03/2006, 05:43 PM

Now you guys have me thinking I should set up my quarantine / prop tank. Ugh.

TCU Reefer · 08/03/2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
My tank tends to have incoming and outgoing corals on a regular basis, for whatever reason. For example, in the past 30 days:

I took pictures of one guy's gorgeous SPS tank. In return, I got 6 frags.

A LFS contacted me to pick up corals that he was throwing out, so I could save them possibly.

A local reefer brought me a frag of his RTNing coral. It didn't survive 24 hours.

The month before:

Club frag swap - I brought home a few pieces.

A bunch of zoanthids were placed in my prop section, donated by another reefer in the area.

AEFW could have come in on any of that stuff. How long they remain dormant, nor how long it takes for them to travel to the actual coral they want to eat - no idea.

Geez Marc, your tank is like a brothel for corals. Coming in, going out... It was just a matter of time before AEFW's were transmitted.

Michael Mota · 08/03/2006, 07:36 PM

Marc, please don't take offense to this but I was under the impression that you always quarantine stuff? This has turned out to be shocking to me. It reminds me of the reefers who spend thousands on their reef tanks and but yet don't have a plan for emergencies such as a electrical outage. Marc set a good example, just kidding around

raddogz · 08/03/2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TCU Reefer
Geez Marc, your tank is like a brothel for corals. Coming in, going out... It was just a matter of time before AEFW's were transmitted.

LOL

On a serious note I just received a flyer in regards to MACNA and noticed that Fernando Nostratpour will be speaking. If you go to MACNA make sure you attend his talk!

It was from his speaking engagement at a local club did I go home and try out the turker baster on a suspicious acro. Yep, it confirmed my suspicions - AEFW.

Yes, have a quarentine tank sucks - but at the risk of a mass kill off of sps - trust me its worth it!

08/02/2006, 10:34 PM	#1
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	My own AEFW (Acro Eating Flatworms) images Hey, why not? I finally got my own collection of them, so I can put some on my I.D. page. My A. valida looked pretty bad over the past week, and I thought it was an alkalinity issue. Turns out I was wrong. Here is is, back on June 13, looking happy: And then again, on July 28th, super close up: Several people informed me early this morning that they are AEFW. Not really sure, I pulled the coral out of my tank, and blasted it in a while bowl of water (.25g perhaps) with 4 drops of Lugol's Solution. Here's what I found. Some were large, like the one above, and many were very tiny. They are virtually invisible to the naked eye when studying a coral. A few more pictures to give you some perspective. And finally, my little coral. It was a mere twig last September, and finally it is something I can hold in my hand. The question is will it survive... I blasted it off repeatedly, and redipped it in new bowls of iodine three times. When I put it back in the tank, the flow caused many of the now-white flatworms to blow around, only to land elsewhere. Now the rest of my corals can be part of the party too. My Copperband Butterfly ate a few. I seriously doubt I'll treat my corals in a separate system. Humm.

08/02/2006, 10:42 PM	#3
dreaminmel Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Irondequoit, NY Posts: 4,758	Sorry to hear you've got the AEFW Marc... Let us know how your treatment goes and please share any info you feel relevant. __________________ ~Melanie~ Hiatus over, 120g in process "Ni lia duine na tuairim." (Everyone has their own opinion.)

08/02/2006, 11:36 PM	#5
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	FWE won't do much good on these Marc, at least that's what I've read. I personally haven't tried it as I simply culled my entire sps collection, well, 95% that is. __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

08/03/2006, 07:50 AM	#8
sfsuphysics Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Francisco Posts: 9,103	now I don't have any experience with AEFW knocks on wood, but do they primarily exist around the base? or do they go all the way up? If it were me I'd probably chop all the tips that still have color off Lugol dip the hell out of them, stick them in a QT tank with other tips of corals that I've culled, and hope for the best that none hitchhiked and just let them die out in the main tank. __________________ Mike

08/03/2006, 10:04 AM	#9
Wiskey Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fallbrook, CA Posts: 3,049	Man that stinks melv,... I wish you luck. Do you think this could have been what caused your other problem not too long ago? Whiskey __________________ This video shows 15 months of coral growth in my tank in a 30 second timelapse: https://youtu.be/bF6C57aTDEo

08/02/2006, 10:38 PM	#2
Bryan89 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 914	Marc, I am in the same boat with the larger FW I discovered yesterday. I dipped the two worst off corals in TMPCC and it killed off all FW on the two corals. I am going to try FW Exit tomorrow, though I am not holding my breath as to its success. Bryan

08/02/2006, 10:48 PM	#4
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I don't even have a plan yet. I just placed an order with Marine Depot an hour ago. Looks like I need to add some Flatworm Exit to my order. What is the other stuff, Bryan?

08/02/2006, 11:41 PM	#6
Bryan89 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 914	TMPCC= Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. It took out all the FW from the corals, but does not kill the eggs. It also allegedly works on red bugs, but I have never had to test it (knock on wood). The TMPCC is a dip. Also from what I read FW exit will not work, but I did read someone had sucess at 2x normal dosing levels. We'll see how it goes. Bryan

08/02/2006, 11:56 PM	#7
MikeEe Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 149	Melev do you know how you got aefw? was it through a frag or a colony? or did it just show up on your coral one day without any recent additions?

08/03/2006, 12:52 PM	#11
Travis 10 and over club Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,525	Sorry to hear Marc. It seems that everyone will eventually end up with these in their tanks, if they haven't yet. With that many AEFW's on that one coral alone, I think it is safe to assume that a lot of your other acros are also going to be housing them. The only way you will probably be able to erradicate these things from your tank is by treating the corals separately and leaving the tank acro-dormant for a good month. So sorry to see the damage on what I'm guessing is your favorite coral. Those "bite marks" sure are a tell tale sign of AEFW damage. One thing that is good is that I know we will all benefit from whatever treatment route you choose as you like to take lots of (good) pictures and thoroughly document everything. I wouldn't bother with FWE. Many have tried it at very strong doses and I don't believe it was successful long-term for any of them. Your current options are TMPCC and levamisole. There is also some sort of over-the-counter iodine dip that people in Europe are using (check dolt's thread for info on that). Be sure to take your time reading through the 3 or so big AEFW threads first and then decide which route you want to go. Each one has its own risks, advantages, and disadvantages. FWIW, I will probably continue to treat incoming corals with the treatment that worked for me, which was 60ppm levamisole for 5-7 hours. This treatment is cheap and effective, but, IME, you can expect a 20-30% loss of corals. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. __________________ TOTM August 08 An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Current Tank Info: 280 sps w/ 75 LPS, 75 refugium, 120 sump

08/03/2006, 02:02 PM	#14
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	My tank tends to have incoming and outgoing corals on a regular basis, for whatever reason. For example, in the past 30 days: I took pictures of one guy's gorgeous SPS tank. In return, I got 6 frags. A LFS contacted me to pick up corals that he was throwing out, so I could save them possibly. A local reefer brought me a frag of his RTNing coral. It didn't survive 24 hours. The month before: Club frag swap - I brought home a few pieces. A bunch of zoanthids were placed in my prop section, donated by another reefer in the area. AEFW could have come in on any of that stuff. How long they remain dormant, nor how long it takes for them to travel to the actual coral they want to eat - no idea. I started reading one AEFW thread where Weatherson was going to treat his tank rather than pulling out the corals, which would be my preference obviously. I only read page 1 of the 24 page thread, so I need to see how that played out. I have a Lemon Meringue Wrasse and a Six Line Wrasse, plus the Copperband. It would be nice if these three would tagteam the worms.

08/03/2006, 02:40 PM	#15
raddogz Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 3,167	Acro-eating flatworms are becoming more and more of a common occurance - a norm rather than an odd occurance. Our local club will be having a talk on quarentine, and the obvious pro's to this delimna. I never quarentined, but you want to make a bet I will do so from this point forwards. __________________ Eileen If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style. - Quentin Crisp Current Tank Info: 180g Reef

08/03/2006, 03:23 PM	#16
wfgworks Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chalfont, PA Posts: 1,913	Melev So what is your plan? Is it recommended to remove the colony to keep others from getting infected? Can someone post the main dicussion threads about AEFW? I need to educate myself on this since I'm sure it will be my turn I'm sure knowing my luck. __________________ Bill Obsessive Reefer Disorder

08/03/2006, 03:56 PM	#17
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I'll find a few links to post in this thread to help you out.

08/03/2006, 05:20 PM	#21
Neptune777 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,700	Melev, I read your post....I feel your pain! After reading your post I pulled a small milli colony from my tank that didn't look too hot and guess what I found after hitting it with lugols and a TB? Grrrrrrrrrr....... I purchased some TMPCC today and will begin treatment this weekend..... I will be setting up a 30gal cube for quarantine, pulling all colonies and frags and doing the initial TMPCC trial. I plan on doing a treatment weekly until I feel satisfied all is OK....

08/03/2006, 05:43 PM	#22
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Now you guys have me thinking I should set up my quarantine / prop tank. Ugh.

08/03/2006, 07:36 PM	#24
Michael Mota Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ma. Posts: 850	Marc, please don't take offense to this but I was under the impression that you always quarantine stuff? This has turned out to be shocking to me. It reminds me of the reefers who spend thousands on their reef tanks and but yet don't have a plan for emergencies such as a electrical outage. Marc set a good example, just kidding around