Anyone here use basically just a blue spectrum?

[Pallobi]

That's about it. I'm thinken about staying away from "sun bulbs" for my zoas.

[charliet21]

Why is that?

[A. Grandis]

Oh yeah... Here we go...
I would like to know for how long have you been using those blues without absolutely any "white" bulbs.
I just opened a thread about spectrum.
Tell us about growth and reproduction rates in the long run.
I would say 1 year+ would be good for comparison.

IME the white in the spectrum is important for the growth/reproduction.
I would go further to say that zoanthids would need "white" bulbs to be able to keep their pigments and function properly.

This is very interesting.

Tagging along...

Grandis.

[rogersb]

I read an article where the guy grows mainly zoas and gives them 3 hours a day of white light and runs his blues somewhere around 8 hours. His polyps get quite large and he claims that this is because they need the white light for proper growth/health and to be able to get all the light they need in 3 hours they have to become larger. Is it true? I don't know. You can google joshporksandwich and look up his article. He is no longer active here.

[Pallobi]

I've read all about Josh's setup. Regardless of what does it for him, he is doin something right.

Grandis, I have not done it, simply inquiring. Not looking to start nonsense. There are deep water polyps that get very little I any white spectrum from what I've read. But that doesn't make it gospel.

Again, I'm asking if anyone has. I have not done it.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by rogersb

I read an article where the guy grows mainly zoas and gives them 3 hours a day of white light and runs his blues somewhere around 8 hours. His polyps get quite large and he claims that this is because they need the white light for proper growth/health and to be able to get all the light they need in 3 hours they have to become larger. Is it true? I don't know. You can google joshporksandwich and look up his article. He is no longer active here.

http://www.reefhobbyistmagazine.com/...hp?error=login
Look for the cover below (3rd quarter, 2013, volume 7):

Quote from the article:

"I think my light schedule is one of the reasons why the zoas and
palys in my tank grow larger than in other tanks. I can’t offer
any scientific proof or supporting research; it’s just based on
comparisons between my tank, a frag tank lit with LEDs attached to
my main display, and some of my friends’ tanks. My light schedule
is as follows:
8:30am - 11:30am (20,000K metal halides)
11:15am - 12:30pm (Super Actinic VHOs)
12:15pm - 9:30pm (blue LEDs)
In my opinion, zoas and palys benefit mostly from white light. I believe
that my polyps have grown larger in order to absorb as much white
light as possible since it is only offered for 3 hours a day. Until someone
proves to me otherwise, I will keep believing my own fairy tale that
shorter periods of white light have made my polyps grow larger."

Again, it's just his personal observations, like mine.

The final proof to me was when I had 2 250W 6500K MHs over my 55gal. zoa tank.
The growth, size of the polyps and reproduction rate was amazing. Best ever since.
Too bad the electricity was so high with those MHs! Too much heat!!

Very good to be able to have T5 or better yet LEDs with white bulbs to supply that!

Also please take a look at this thread (post #22 on is about the subject):
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2372965

I still don't know why Josh doesn't post here anymore.

Have fun!
Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by Pallobi

I've read all about Josh's setup. Regardless of what does it for him, he is doin something right.

Grandis, I have not done it, simply inquiring. Not looking to start nonsense. There are deep water polyps that get very little I any white spectrum from what I've read. But that doesn't make it gospel.

Again, I'm asking if anyone has. I have not done it.

Oh, OK. I though you were already trying that out.
No, I didn't think you wanted to start any nonsense.
I just thought that I would have to look again for the info in order to participate and try to help.

The link for the thread in my previous post has my observations on the subject.
Just wanted to give my opinion.

I also would like to hear from people.

Now, on the parallel subject about the deep water zoas…
I really would love to know everything about what you have found.

It is my understand that such zoanthids were practically never sold before.
I've been searching for that a while ago to find that the term 'deepwater zoas" was just one more excuse to make money out of the curiou$$$ hobbyist$$.
Part of the cartoon name deal.

Please let me know where to find serious info about the subject.
I'm really interested!!

Thanks,
Grandis.

[charliet21]

Ive been running somewhat of dame photoperiod as him..i like it so far. My torches and frog dpawn dont like it tho. But tank is mainly z/ps. Also run mh so its kinda different. See i blast the crap out them for 3hrs a day. Now with that being said idk if it would work with t5 and so on.

[Pallobi]

My inquiry had nothing to do with short white spectrum photoperiods. That is a completely different conversation. I'm only concerned with using a blue spectrum focused only lighting. I haven't done this, I'm just asking if anyone has. I know I remember reading here and there about folks mentioning it is something they do. I don't recall them using I long term or any success or failures. I have a local buddy who only uses blue plus bulbs and one purple plus, and he grows sps, LPS and polyps. But I'm looking for more input before it's anything I try.

[AlexRSM130]

Deep water zoas could benefit from the exposure to low wavelengths of light.Especially blue spectrum.
I ve heard some coral farms in Germany use only blue LED`s to pop their zoo colonies faster.
It makes sense,not only for aesthetic reasons but pigmentation in zoantous species(not all of them ofc they are many many variety's) seems to prefer blue spectrum.
I follow.
Cheers!

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by AlexRSM130

Deep water zoas could benefit from the exposure to low wavelengths of light.Especially blue spectrum.
I ve heard some coral farms in Germany use only blue LED`s to pop their zoo colonies faster.
It makes sense,not only for aesthetic reasons but pigmentation in zoantous species(not all of them ofc they are many many variety's) seems to prefer blue spectrum.
I follow.
Cheers!

Hi Alex,
Yes, it would make sense if they were really deep water zoanthids.
My point here is IF those so called "deep water zoas" are really collected from deeper waters, therefore possibly collected from an environment with that type of spectrum. My question to you was if you had any proof that they came from the deeper waters because as far as I know that is just part of the way they call those zoas.

I've never heard about those coral farms in Germany. Do you have a link? Book? Article? Where did you hear that from, please?
Also, to POP their zoa colonies actually means pop the colors, not to GROW faster.

Yes, it would make sense, if they indeed came from deeper waters...
The system would need to have only those deeper water species to make real sense. Agree?

So generally speaking, having the usual species that everyone see available in the market today, the use of only blue light wouldn't be viable.

I would like see some pictures of the deep water zoas you're talking about.

This is a good subject!
Cheers!
Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by Pallobi

My inquiry had nothing to do with short white spectrum photoperiods. That is a completely different conversation. I'm only concerned with using a blue spectrum focused only lighting. I haven't done this, I'm just asking if anyone has. I know I remember reading here and there about folks mentioning it is something they do. I don't recall them using I long term or any success or failures. I have a local buddy who only uses blue plus bulbs and one purple plus, and he grows sps, LPS and polyps. But I'm looking for more input before it's anything I try.

Would be great to have that local buddy here to give us some feedback on that.
Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by charliet21

Why is that?

Why is that?
What would be the purpose?
Faster growth?
Healthier colonies?
Colors poped?

Grandis.

[Pallobi]

I don't have a why is that answer for you guys. I'm the one asking!!

[AlexRSM130]

Indeed a good subject.

I have been an addicted zoa collector but in the country I live in it is very hard to find nice rare species and I have to track good farms,breeders and importers from EU to make a descent collection.Some of them are from US,others from UK and Germany.
I have spoken with many professionals and one of them (zoafanatics.de) told me he is keeping his colonies under blue LED`s.
Well he has a wonderful collection(maybe the best in EU)so I don't find a reason why not to believe him.He keeps LPS too under blue spectrum.

I think Deep Water Zoas are mostly Japanese.Or just mutations.There is no pattern about them and I agree with you.Regarding the mutations would say it's a nice long chat and in my humble opinion,although corals are several times and some clones or colonies derived from coupling two common colonies of the same species sometimes there are some super color colonies for hobbyists acclimatized more easily and exhibit maximum coloration,commonly easier '' tamed'' in captive conditions.Those are the holy grail of the hobby.

Although I try to find subjects about zoanthus the ones that have been written are from past 80`s or 90`s and are referred to Protopalythoas Mutuki so I find it good and healthy to discuss those matters in the biggest Reef community.
However IMO there seems to be incompatibility with most zoanthus species,allelochemical warfare especially in a mixed reef tank.

After messing with parameters,flow,lighting...I just try to solve the puzzle myself.

I am sorry in advance for any brutality in English language.

Cheers my friend from Honolulu.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by Pallobi

I don't have a why is that answer for you guys. I'm the one asking!!

Why are you asking.
That's the question.
Why would anyone do that?
Why would you try?
Faster growth?
Better colors?

Growth wise I don't think they will grow faster than with a the presence of a warmer spectrum.

In regards to better colors it's relative, 'cause the reflexion of the fluorescent blue and green pigments, as well as some of the yellow, red and orange fluorescent pigments will be only reflection with the use of the blue type of light offered.

That's my opinion.

It depends on the reason you would have to keep the zoas under only blue lights.

Seriously? I don't see the point.
Besides, it's unnatural. The zoas sold to the market aren't' coming from deep water.

Now…we can wait and see if there is anyone that is doing that and hopefully the person will bring some more "light" to the thread.


Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by AlexRSM130

Indeed a good subject.

I have been an addicted zoa collector but in the country I live in it is very hard to find nice rare species and I have to track good farms,breeders and importers from EU to make a descent collection.Some of them are from US,others from UK and Germany.
I have spoken with many professionals and one of them (zoafanatics.de) told me he is keeping his colonies under blue LED`s.
Well he has a wonderful collection(maybe the best in EU)so I don't find a reason why not to believe him.He keeps LPS too under blue spectrum.

I think Deep Water Zoas are mostly Japanese.Or just mutations.There is no pattern about them and I agree with you.Regarding the mutations would say it's a nice long chat and in my humble opinion,although corals are several times and some clones or colonies derived from coupling two common colonies of the same species sometimes there are some super color colonies for hobbyists acclimatized more easily and exhibit maximum coloration,commonly easier '' tamed'' in captive conditions.Those are the holy grail of the hobby.

Although I try to find subjects about zoanthus the ones that have been written are from past 80`s or 90`s and are referred to Protopalythoas Mutuki so I find it good and healthy to discuss those matters in the biggest Reef community.
However IMO there seems to be incompatibility with most zoanthus species,allelochemical warfare especially in a mixed reef tank.

After messing with parameters,flow,lighting...I just try to solve the puzzle myself.

I am sorry in advance for any brutality in English language.

Cheers my friend from Honolulu.

You do very well with the english!

Those Japanese zoanthids aren't from deep water. They just have the name associated to set them apart from other types. Actually some of those so called Japanese zoanthids" are actually from other places like Thailand...

Protopalythoa mutuki is actually called now Palythoa mutuki instead. The nomenclature has already changed.

I could be wrong, but those guys from farms in Germany are only keeping zoas for a short period of time. they do that in order to sell and i just can't believe why only blue lights would grow zoas faster. It's totally the opposite of what I've been experienced. The only way to have that done is heavy feeding the system. And that's too much unnecessary maintenance IMO.

Best thing to do is to set a good blue and "white" balanced spectrum for the system and search for other things in order to improve stability and health for a zoa system in the long run. To tell the truth light is one of the most simple aspects when keeping zoas IMO/E. They are pretty adaptable to the normal range of those "normal" (close to natural) spectrum offered. The closest to the natural the better.
Spectrum bluer than sunlight (~10000K) will help the system in lots of ways, but "white light" is still present.

Grandis.

[glaukos]

Totally agree with grandis.

IF and that is a big IF...those guys in germany(or wherever) keep them only under blues it's only for marketing-shelling reasons and not for accelerating growth.

"Also, to POP their zoa colonies actually means pop the colors, not to GROW faster."...+1 to that grandis.
I lso cant see the reason why blues would accelarate growth in deep water zoa's
Also grandis(agree to that too) i don't think one could feed the amount of food that zoa's may need-If that could accelerate their growth-and not have other side problems like water quality etc.
Agree with the unnecessary maintenance part.

I still don't see any picture or even better evidence-article or link with scientific backround,to some of the so-called deep water zoa's and their preference to blue light and how this could accelerate their growth.
It would be interesting to see that.

"Best thing to do is to set a good blue and "white" balanced spectrum for the system and search for other things in order to improve stability and health for a zoa system in the long run. To tell the truth light is one of the most simple aspects when keeping zoas IMO/E. They are pretty adaptable to the normal range of those "normal" (close to natural) spectrum offered. The closest to the natural the better.
Spectrum bluer than sunlight (~10000K) will help the system in lots of ways, but "white light" is still present."
......+1!

[AlexRSM130]

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[AlexRSM130]

We could see the question from an other point of view.

Are there any proof saying that you couldn't keep zoanthus under just full blue spectrum?

Well we know that zoanthus are a low light demanding species(coralpedia.com)and their sexuality is in most cases is Hermaphroditic(Dana Riddle 2009),lighting sure will affect their growth and coloration as a proportion to their photosynthetic needs.
We cant deny that most photosynthetic invertebrates will thrive under conditions of relatively little light.IMHO I would mind more on light intensity then spectrum.
There is no evidence that I am aware of that suggests corals zooxanthellae require supersaturating light intensities in order to maintain growth rates and/or provide proper nutriment to the coral animal. Most 'common' corals saturate (that is, photosynthesis is at a maximum rate) at light intensities ranging from 200 to 450 molm²sec.(Riddle 2009).
"Blue light (~450 nm) alone can mimick regular white light, while lights of wavelengths in the red and infrared area of the spectrum had little or no effect in entraining the cell cycle." (Wang et al., 2008)
Clade C witch is mostly found in zoanthids(Riddle 2009) is the most diverse of the 4 clades.Type C8a is found only in deeper waters so I guess if we can locate this type of glade in zoanthus it would be proof of Deepwater zoanthus existence...Unfortunately after reading glassbox design 2010 article about Japanese deepwater zoas I guess DeepWater zoanthus is just a marketing trick and there wasn't any officially reported import from Japan.
However it would be possible for some colonies to grow and spread in depth making new patterns.And I come back with what I ve said before about mutations.
IMHO if I could choose only one spectrum to keep my zoanthus it would be blue.It seems IMO to cover their photosynthetic needs and it gives them awesome color for sure.
I would be interested too to see a hobbyist who really uses only blue spectrum to breed his zoanthus so I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying.I could start the experiment to see myself over time,but I don't have the time and space required.There are so many things in this hobby we don't know yet.
We could try something out of the normal methods.

Sorry for any inconvenience

[Pallobi]

Search "bigfishLpond", that is a buddy whole has had a 80g deep blue for 2 years, and uses 7 blue plus and 1 purple plus. He was one of the gents at the tag market we had local today selling. I picked up 7 great lookin zoas last week. There is a case for blues in that thread.

It's silly to argue it can't be done. Again like said above, let's see proof that it does not work.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by Pallobi

Search "bigfishLpond", that is a buddy whole has had a 80g deep blue for 2 years, and uses 7 blue plus and 1 purple plus. He was one of the gents at the tag market we had local today selling. I picked up 7 great lookin zoas last week. There is a case for blues in that thread.

It's silly to argue it can't be done. Again like said above, let's see proof that it does not work.

Do you have a link for the bigfishLpond?

I agree. Silly to argue it can't be done.
I'm still waiting for that proof myself.

I just hope it comes with a 2 year min. experience and a good health colorful zoa shot.

Now the point is how that will actually de done and what will be the results of zoas morphed under blue light after the 2 year period.

I would think that if the person is OK and happy with the results, why not?
We all have different tastes anyway.
Not a big deal, if the zoas can survive, right?

Grandis.

[ReEfErAdDiCt86]

I always thought white light was mainly for aesthetics.

I currently run an ATI sunpower 6x54w fixture with 5 blue+ and one coral plus bulb. I also have a blue led strip light for dawn/dusk before the t5s kick on.

Corals grow well and look good in my opinion. I've been running my tank like this for about 8 months now. I can post pics if anyone is interested.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by ReEfErAdDiCt86

I always thought white light was mainly for aesthetics.

I currently run an ATI sunpower 6x54w fixture with 5 blue+ and one coral plus bulb. I also have a blue led strip light for dawn/dusk before the t5s kick on.

Corals grow well and look good in my opinion. I've been running my tank like this for about 8 months now. I can post pics if anyone is interested.

Yes, pics are always welcome!

I've had the same bulb configuration over my 75gal zoa tank for a short period of time in the past. I added one more Coral Plus because I noticed some of the zoas were morphing and loosing/changing some of their pigments. The pink zoas were looking grayish. Some of the reds were loosing their fluorescence too. Some zoas were looking pale. After the second Coral Plus was added most their color slowly came back to normal.

Blue Plus is a wonderful bulb and with a great PAR. It gives a beautiful pop over some of the fluorescent pigments in zoas, but I particularly don't like to see the polyps changing to that type of morph. My goal is mainly to keep the morph to a minimum and try to have the same colors as when I first introduced them into the system.

One of the best growth rates I've had with my ATI Power Module system had one 6500K GE bulb in the middle, a while ago. Too bad it becomes too yellow in that exactly spot where the bulb is and 2 of the GE bulbs in a 6 bulb combo is just too much yellow for my taste. I like the crispy white look, and with 2 Coral Plus bulbs I could find a common denominator for a nice growth and better look. Still not that crispy white though. It's towards the pink side of white.

Today I have 2 KZ Coral Light (~10000K) and 6 Blue Plus in that same system. Some times I remember the GE 6500K bulb and think about adding it back with one of the KZ Coral light to see how it looks. I think the KZ looks more crispy white than the ATI Coral Plus. At the same time I avoid changing too many bulbs without a real need.

Grandis.

[Pallobi]

Grandis, I don't have the link off hand, that's why I mentioned the search. But I'll see if I can't dig it up.